koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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 Posted:
Dec 08, 2016 - 11:27 |
 
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| Balle2000 wrote: | | JimmyFantastic wrote: | | koadah wrote: | | That sounds ridiculous. Am I missing something? |
Not missing anything. New inducement system is awful. |
Seemingly* awful.
With the treasury now having a very tangible effect on your TV for the following season, GW seems to have thought that if you really want to use out of "next year's budget", you will get this as a direct bonus to your team. Short term gain, over long term planning.
As an example, 2 bloodweiser kegs could potentially cost you 5 skills for the entire next season.
I'm puzzled by the change as well, but it's done, so I'm eager to see how this works in action. |
But you are discouraged from building a huge bankroll, so if you have it you may as well spend it.
A team that has it will have an advantage over the team that doesn't. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 08, 2016 - 11:31 |
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| Balle2000 wrote: | | JimmyFantastic wrote: | | koadah wrote: | | That sounds ridiculous. Am I missing something? |
Not missing anything. New inducement system is awful. |
Seemingly* awful.
With the treasury now having a very tangible effect on your TV for the following season, GW seems to have thought that if you really want to use out of "next year's budget", you will get this as a direct bonus to your team. Short term gain, over long term planning.
As an example, 2 bloodweiser kegs could potentially cost you 5 skills for the entire next season.
I'm puzzled by the change as well, but it's done, so I'm eager to see how this works in action. |
Not really. The EM mechanic encourages you to dump excess if anything. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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I don't really think the 'growth during a season' discussion is that important to the seasons discussion, or rather not so important as it requires pages of arguing.
If you can't grow teams much during a season you have less to cut back at the end. If you can add 600TV in a season (don't see it being likely) then you have to cut back all that much more at the end.
Seasons are absolutely a soft TV cap. I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise. There are disagreements over whether this is a good or bad thing though. Spiraling Expenses are also a soft TV cap.
I quite like Licker's suggestion of seasons being used to qualify towards something and having an overall goal. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 08, 2016 - 11:58 |
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| mister__joshua wrote: |
I quite like Licker's suggestion of seasons being used to qualify towards something and having an overall goal. |
Though we could have done that at any time. The new rules don't give us anything more towards that.
"Growth during the season" gets so much discussion because you need to know it to decide on the TV limits. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 08, 2016 - 12:03 |
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| mister__joshua wrote: |
Seasons are absolutely a soft TV cap. I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise. There are disagreements over whether this is a good or bad thing though. Spiraling Expenses are also a soft TV cap.
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Hardly comparable. SE was a very soft cap that was universal and also possible to game in Box and Ranked.
Seasons are a very hard soft cap, with different levels - which if applied to Box and Ranked will be completely arbitrary. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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| koadah wrote: | | "Growth during the season" gets so much discussion because you need to know it to decide on the TV limits. |
I don't think you do. The growth during a season and the TV limits both scale with the number of games played, so whatever game length a season is the result will be the same; the exception being a game number so high no-one ever hits the limits.
| JimmyFantastic wrote: | Hardly comparable. SE was a very soft cap that was universal and also possible to game in Box and Ranked.
Seasons are a very hard soft cap, with different levels - which if applied to Box and Ranked will be completely arbitrary. |
Not the same in execution, but similar in intent. I don't think the fact it was possible to 'game' one system and not the other makes the gamed system superior? That's surely the opposite of what was intended? |
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SzieberthAdam
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 08, 2016 - 12:15 |
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I was thinking forward my last suggestion:
Let three (four) tiers at re-buy values (B=) 1000k, 1500k, 2000k, (2500k) respectively.
Tier names could be Low/Mid/High(/Top).
10 games Season length. This lets the following extra re-buy cash over B:
avg(CAS+TD) = 2.5 -> 225k
avg(CAS+TD) = 3.0 -> 250k
avg(CAS+TD) = 3.5 -> 275k
avg(CAS+TD) = 4.0 -> 300k
To get a promotion offer, a team's TW(!) must be greater than or equal to the next tier's B value after re-buy process at season end.
So if a Tier2 team is done with a 10 games season and re-buyed its assests and players with a B=1500k and its TW is still over 2000k it gets an offer to advance to the High tier. Note that this is optional.
Pros:
1. Box scheduler could be working tier based only which would be a more plain behavior.
2. Plain Tournament stucture: Low/Mid/High/LowMid/MidHigh/Any. From the many Majors, one could even be dedicated to LowMid tier.
3. Destroyment protection.
4. Achieving promotion provides some challenge.
I believe you could name a lot of cons though.
EDIT1: Naturally if the example team's TW is below 1500k it should get a demotion offer. |
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Last edited by SzieberthAdam on %b %08, %2016 - %20:%Dec; edited 2 times in total |
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Matthueycamo
Joined: May 16, 2014
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| Posted:
Dec 08, 2016 - 15:23 |
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| Balle2000 wrote: | | JimmyFantastic wrote: | | koadah wrote: | | That sounds ridiculous. Am I missing something? |
Not missing anything. New inducement system is awful. |
Seemingly* awful.
With the treasury now having a very tangible effect on your TV for the following season, GW seems to have thought that if you really want to use out of "next year's budget", you will get this as a direct bonus to your team. Short term gain, over long term planning.
As an example, 2 bloodweiser kegs could potentially cost you 5 skills for the entire next season.
I'm puzzled by the change as well, but it's done, so I'm eager to see how this works in action. |
It would be short term V long term if the treasury rules were not also put in. But since exspenseive mistakes exists buying the inducements is usually going to be the long term option to reduce the risk of losing your treasury. Not taking that bloodweiser could cost you your entire treasury or half of it the next season which is a lot more than 5 skills. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 08, 2016 - 15:55 |
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| mister__joshua wrote: | | If you can't grow teams much during a season you have less to cut back at the end. If you can add 600TV in a season |
Then what happens when you enter a Major?
You do seem to have read the rules as well as koadah, J.
All this is so konfuzing. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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The bit of my post you've quoted makes no sense. I also have no idea what you mean
I've read the rules quite well thanks  |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 08, 2016 - 16:23 |
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| mister__joshua wrote: | | I've read the rules quite well thanks :) |
Perfect. Then you know that before you cut the 600TV you in a season, you enter into play-offs, right?
That's what Uedder's suggestion was trying to buff, and I'm sure you read Uedder's suggestion quite well too.
In the rules, playoffs are the goal of season play. Not sure why you only now realize that seasons having goals is a good thing since you've read the rules quite well.
If you have any other question, feel free to ask.
Since you read the rules so well, I'll let you answer gary1's question ;-) |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 08, 2016 - 16:42 |
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| Matthueycamo wrote: | | Not taking that bloodweiser could cost you your entire treasury or half of it [...] |
Expensive Mistakes happens in the post-match sequence. The main thing that could cost you your entire treasury (1/6 with a 300-390K treasury) is not buying stuff before the EM sequence.
Since a keg is more than your winnings expectations for a game, all you need to maintain your treasury between 200 and 300 is to buy one keg or to buy stuff.
Buying stuff. What's wrong with that? |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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| thoralf wrote: | Perfect. Then you know that before you cut the 600TV you in a season, you enter into play-offs, right?
That's what Uedder's suggestion was trying to buff, and I'm sure you read Uedder's suggestion quite well too.
In the rules, playoffs are the goal of season play. Not sure why you only now realize that seasons having goals is a good thing since you've read the rules quite well.
If you have any other question, feel free to ask.
Since you read the rules so well, I'll let you answer gary1's question  |
Of the suggestions I've seen on here, not many suggested ending every season with a play-offs. Not that it matters, as that's not in any way relevant to the point I was making.
Being condescending to everyone doesn't make you look clever. Engage with people civilly or I'll just lock the topic and be done with it.
Thanks |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Dec 08, 2016 - 17:07 |
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| thoralf wrote: | | mister__joshua wrote: | | I've read the rules quite well thanks |
Perfect. Then you know that before you cut the 600TV you in a season, you enter into play-offs, right? |
So now every R and B team has to enter playoffs? That's asinine.
| thoralf wrote: | | That's what Uedder's suggestion was trying to buff, and I'm sure you read Uedder's suggestion quite well too. |
Well the entire premise that R and B have to have anything to do with tournaments is a red herring. See some of us don't play in tournaments at all, and CERTAINLY not all teams play in tournaments or playoffs or whatever else it is that you guys are trying to shoehorn again.
| thoralf wrote: | | In the rules, playoffs are the goal of season play. Not sure why you only now realize that seasons having goals is a good thing since you've read the rules quite well. |
So again, seasons redefines what R and B are 'supposed' to be. Which is fine, I don't really care if they change. Though the suspicion is that it's just much much simpler to create a separate division for the seasons/playoffs stuff in the first place. As others have said, if the creation of that kills R and B so be it. |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 08, 2016 - 17:38 |
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| koadah wrote: | | But you are discouraged from building a huge bankroll, so if you have it you may as well spend it. |
| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | Not really. The EM mechanic encourages you to dump excess if anything. |
Are you sure?
The average winnings is 35k gold / game. So for an 8 game season you will get an average of 280k if you maintain a 50% winrate.
This means that all extra inducements you take, will subtract directly from your TV the following season.
In addition to this comes the extra players you might buy the current season as well.
Most leagues have around 8 games / season. So I don't think it's as black & white as you guys make it out to be. At least I hope not. |
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