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Candlejack



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2017 - 18:47 Reply with quote Back to top

There might be a bug when it comes to stunties. I have to look into that, maybe I can get that information from the reports.

I created an issue for it.

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Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2017 - 19:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Now, in this match we have players who have played 17 turns.

https://www.fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=3935570
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2017 - 19:21 Reply with quote Back to top

15 turns = riot
17 turns = blitz!


Read the kick off events???

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Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2017 - 19:27 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
15 turns = riot
17 turns = blitz!


Read the kick off events???


That makes sense. I did not know how it counted turns. Thank you.
Tulkas_jrrt



Joined: Apr 30, 2012

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2017 - 19:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Riot can add as well turns for the two teams, Blitz only one team.

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Zabriskie69



Joined: Oct 18, 2016

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2017 - 22:13 Reply with quote Back to top

this game the statistics are wrong :
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=3935602
humans finish the game with 6 players on the field, it seems that, for the 2nd half, statistics have failed
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2017 - 22:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Humans have a bench. Probably some of the bench finished the match on the pitch.

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Zabriskie69



Joined: Oct 18, 2016

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2017 - 22:46 Reply with quote Back to top

No, I am the human coach...
Candlejack



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 04, 2017 - 23:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Created an issue for that, will look into it when I get the time.

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PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 12, 2017 - 20:35 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Not all the failed actions are really relevant for the outcome of a game.


I agree with that statement and I will add onto it.

Any time you fail an action that causes a turnover it most likely though does start a cascading effect on the game. That if you do not correct and/or reverse will make the match harder to win.

Example.

Turn 1 You blow off the LOS with your 3 guys and then move 2 guys to screen the ball and then move the ball carrier over to pick up the ball and he fails. Well, now 5 of your players have in essence lost their turn.

Turn 2 You are mad, you rage spite against NUFFLE and immediately move the ball carrier over to pick up the stupid ball and roll double 1. Now 10 players on your team have not moved. SO in two turns you have in effect lost 15 moves out of a possible 22 total moves over 2 turns. My rough math says you have lost around 65% of your players actions.


SO

Turnovers is the key stat to keep your eye on. New or very aggressive players have a high Turn over rate. I would quess they have 7-9 Turn overs a game.

Turnovers create a situation were you are not able to move all your players and thus losing actions on every turn.

It is a compounding effect over the entire match.

You watch the top coaches on FUMBBL and their turn over rate is under 3 a game. That is why they win at a higher %.

Now in my experience when I do beat one of the top level coaches on FUMBBL it is usually because they had a bad game in terms of Turn Overs. They where bumbling and fumbling all over the place and for that one game, no matter how good they are as a coach, they cannot over come the compounding effect of losing so many player actions.


Now Turn Overs are a function of the dice BUT experienced coaches know what actions to do first and work down the check list every turn. So, IF a turn over happens they have maximized the # of player actions for that turn before the turn over happens.

If you finish a match with 0 turn overs the odds of you winning go way up.

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PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 12, 2017 - 21:23 Reply with quote Back to top

When I first started playing on FUMBBL all those years ago it took me about 2 years before it finally dawned on me that Turn Overs was my #1 problem.
Then it finally sank in that my "bad dice" were a
result of my play style. I was taking to many turn overs a match and then to double down on the mistake I was leaving players next to foes who would pound them into the pitch.

Turnovers leads to more blocks against your players which leads to more CAS/KO against you which then leads to more matches playing short manned which leads to you having to play a riskier style of play to make a "play" which comes full circle to more turnovers.

If you reduce your turn overs you take fewer CAS + increase your win % and then finally full enlightenment that this game is not all about he dice but how you coach your team. Sure, does it happen every now and then you just have one of those games. Every coach on FUMBBL/TT/CYANIDE/MONOPLY and RISK has one of those games. The Good coaches seem to have a much smaller % of those games compared to new players or players who play a high risk/reward style of play.

Lets come full circle to the OP.

Making more stat lines will not give you any more insight on why you lost or won. You want insight on why you lost you can find that with a simple stat line. You had 11 turn overs on 16 turns and lost 87 player moves. That is why you lost, from a statistical stand point. Going back and looking at replays though and improving your skill level will then guide you on how to improve by reducing your turn overs.

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Last edited by PainState on Oct 12, 2017 - 21:39; edited 1 time in total
PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 12, 2017 - 21:32 Reply with quote Back to top

If you want to improve a stat line I would propose this change. Add a stat line that tracks the teams total player moves. In a standard 16 turn game the most player moves you can make is 176. 11 players all moving/ taking a action even if you decide he just stands there like a tree, he took a action, on 16 turns.

So from my example above. If you lost 87 "moves" your team only performed 89 actions. IT is very difficult for your team to win if you lose almost half your team actions for a match.

Finally add a stat line that tracks total Turn Overs for each team. Any time your turn ends with out hitting end turn it is recorded as a Turn Over.

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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 12, 2017 - 22:06 Reply with quote Back to top

+1, agree

Preventing turnovers is the most important thing to focus on for a lot of people looking to improve... Myself included
ramchop



Joined: Oct 12, 2013

Post   Posted: Oct 13, 2017 - 00:58 Reply with quote Back to top

PainState wrote:
In a standard 16 turn game the most player moves you can make is 176. 11 players all moving/ taking a action even if you decide he just stands there like a tree, he took a action, on 16 turns.


How would the stat collector decide if your double skull happened in the first action of the turn, or after 3 of your players decided to just stand there like a tree?
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 13, 2017 - 21:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Players doing no action at all deliberately will be a very small proportion of the missed turns. Perhaps for some meat shields but often they will be getting up at least.

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