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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 28, 2019 - 19:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Hi all
OBBA has allowed Khorne and Brets for a couple seasons and WIL is about to introduce them.
Obviously there's other good guides about Khorne out there, notably this one: https://bbtactics.com/forum/threads/a-khorne-daemons-guide.2044 It's good but overly long.. and I wanted to post some thoughts here as this forum doesn't have much info on them that I saw

I've currently played 15 games with the team, record of 4/5/6 W/D/L. They're at 1630tv



Starting roster
Don't take the Bloodthirster. You need the rerolls instead (aim for 4 + Leader) Just get 2 of each lesser demon. Then buy thirster, apoth and a 12th man as soon as you can

You really need lots of Block and lots of Guard and lots of rerolls, to try and mitigate Frenzy's liability
The team doesn't get particularly playable until maybe 1500tv or higher

Setup
Put your team central, no one on the 4 squares close to the side. You want to give the sides to the opponent
Look for surfs at the start of your drive, you can chain frenzy from a long way. Don't overcommit to it, so rarely will it actually happen or be worth it
Look for surfs at all times, but against decent opponents it will rarely actually happen or be worth it

It's hard to drive with the ball, hard to score generally with move6, hard to keep position. So, caging is difficult. Don't send guys off to do blocks, you have to focus the ball

Don't put bloodthirster on the LOS on defense



Bloodthirster
Skills: Mighty Blow then Guard
Kind of the centre of the team, and what draws people in. He's bad value at 180tv and doesn't come with Mighty Blow (!)
He does have Juggernaut so don't forget to take Both Downs as Pushes if you need to, and remember that on a blitz it cancels Fend, Stand Firm and Wrestle
He blitzes a str3 target with 3 dice, given a single assist. Try to get this single assist every time

Looking at a Beastman, with Claw + Frenzy at 100tv. It hits with 2dice, but doesn't have Wild Animal or Loner, so is actually better. And no one takes Claw + Frenzy as first 2 skills

Conclusion: the BT is overpriced and unreliable. Sometimes his best role is just being a scary Guard, sadly

Mine is also a big failure. 117 career blocks = 4 cas
Block stats don't count the second block from frenzy, either. So he's thrown several hundreds of block dice, for 4 measly cas

Heralds
Skills: Block, Guard first. Then Mighty Blow
Great players, they'll become viable main blitzers with Block MB, but they also need to do a lot of Guarding

Bloodletters
Skills: Block, Dodge, (then sidestep surehands etc)
Ball carrier, because they have Agility access and no Frenzy. I use just 2, haven't felt much need for more, the av7 puts me off. Your best one should be your carrier, maybe another as a sacker, but probably backup carrier

Pit fighters
Skills: Leader on the first one to skillup. Then Block on all the others. Tackle as 2nd skill, but this will take a long time


MVP
Priority is getting a Leader on your first Pit Fighter.
Then, anyone with a couple SPP should get MVP for their first skill
Otherwise, MVP goes to heralds + thirster until they've got 2-3 skills
Really you want to get Block and Guard on as many guys as possible


Weaknesses:
> Expensive squad
> Total lack of sensible starting skills (the "Chaos Chosen problem")
> Mediocre stats
> No cheap star players. you can have Grashnak (more frenzy!) for 310tv or Morg for 430tv
> Move6 is slow
> Caging is hard, positioning is hard, scoring is hard
> Your main blitzer has Wild Animal and Loner (the "Minotaur problem")
> Committing to surfing opponent is often a bad idea
> Opponents with sidestep are a big problem, and often best ignored

> Frenzy is often a liability:
>> Can get countersurfed
>> 2-dice block = push = into negative-2-dice-block because you didn't notice something
>> Frenzy-spam is a "win-more" skill... If you're outnumbering the opponent it'll help increase the pressure, but it doesn't help if you're losing, it actually makes things harder. Being out-numbered is miserable with this roster



Strengths:
> Not that much, honestly
> Blitzing? They're good at blitzing
> Can potentially throw a lot of block dice
> It's a stronger team defensively than on offense
> The thirster is scary
> Frenzy means you need Tackle less than other teams


Basically, I feel you have be lucky AND out-coach the other guy to get wins. Most normal rosters only require one of those 2 things to get a win.

I'd rate the roster overall power, as somewhere a little below average. Maybe Human-level


Last edited by Sp00keh on Jan 28, 2019 - 23:21; edited 3 times in total
WizardX11



Joined: Mar 13, 2018

Post   Posted: Jan 28, 2019 - 21:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Since you are saying you are not going to win much to start with, why not go mighty blow before guard on the heralds just to speed up development
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 28, 2019 - 22:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Yea that's an option but honestly, you can easily get into situations where your pit fighters can't take a 2dice block without the risk of the following block being 1dice or negative 2dice.

Guard helps prevent that, and so is a big priority for the team

It's especially bad:
early on when you have no Block,
and/or if you face str4 on the LOS like chaos or lizards
and/or if you get outnumbered

If the team can't take blocks, it's paralysed; and mighty blow isn't going to help. and then you lose
Mattius



Joined: Sep 03, 2006

Post   Posted: Jan 28, 2019 - 23:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Human level? If so that's not bad. Never played Khorne, but you make it out as if they are nearly stunty level? Ie, needs skill and luck? That's basically a tier 3 or below team. Sounds to me they are on par with vamps and slaan perhaps?
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 28, 2019 - 23:09 Reply with quote Back to top

I played vamps a little in last year's box trophy and think they're perhaps similar

Both rosters start off difficult but get stronger with some basic skills although their TV bloats upward fast too

Vamps are probably stronger
amazingprizzini



Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 28, 2019 - 23:21 Reply with quote Back to top

the idea of a team with lineman with no skills but frenzy is terrifying to me. I would look at my opening blocks before they skilled up and not want to do any of them.

Their most common skill skill besides frenzy is Juggernaut, which can only be used by one player a turn, the most powerful of whom may fail a wild animal roll.

This whole roster looks designed to make the player take a series of risky rolls, over and over again.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 29, 2019 - 08:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes exactly
The compensation for this is supposed to be how many block dice you'll throw, but generally it doesn't mean it'll work

Instead of playing with reckless bloodlust you instead have to play extremely cautiously.
2 dice into 2 dice blocks, and position so that's what you can get next turn too. That means often pairing your guys up against one st3 target
You can't spare many pairs of players very often, the rest of your team is needed for normal blood bowl things. So, you actually can find you're not doing many blocks per turn

I mean they're not impossible. They can get wins, even with me coaching them
Milman



Joined: Nov 15, 2017

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2020 - 19:17 Reply with quote Back to top

How are you doing with them so far? I’m thinking if doing a league or a tournament with them. Kinda stuck on the tournament build.
You maybe got some advise on what to take? Tv 115 6skills (3normals and options for 3double skill-ups) +1 leader. But i’m stuck on giving guard or block...
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 19, 2020 - 14:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Ha, a year later

Well, to update. After writing the above, my Khorne team played 2 more games, lost both games and a key Herald


I took a break from the game and dropped from the leagues I was in, and also retired the team as I just didn't really get on with it.


Not sure I'd recommend them, but if you're set then I'd possibly go:
1 Thirster, 2 Heralds, 1 Bloodletter, 7 Pit Fighters, 2 RR = 1150

Leader on a PF
If you're fielding the thirster you'd want MB / Guard on him

Block / Dodge for the Letter and carry the ball
Rest of skills into the Heralds
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