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fidius



Joined: Jun 17, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 05, 2020 - 07:36 Reply with quote Back to top

Now we know who the GW chief designer was...
Bazakastine



Joined: Mar 21, 2014

Post   Posted: Jul 05, 2020 - 08:51 Reply with quote Back to top

I agree with you on Underworld Grod. Gutter runners are just amazing players. Linerats just need a single double to be your backup blitzer anyway. It will change the way they play some but I don't see the team being much worse now.


The Old World Alliance though I can't get there with you on. Saying Loner is needed for balance is basically saying that the team would be too good without it which I just dont see.

Is trading 3 Blitzers and 3 Catchers for 4 Dwarves, 2 Halflings and 70K Re-rolls an improvement over normal Humans? It looks like a bit of a wash to me. You get 1 extra Strength access which is good. A few starting skills and some AV9 is also good. You also lose almost all of your speed which is something that would have to be worked around. I just don't look at that roster and think man the only way this is not going to be way to good is to give half the team a skill that cripples them.

Ill likely still make a team to try them but my expectation is longterm for them to just not get used outside of an environment that allows extreme min/max to work.


Last edited by Bazakastine on Jul 05, 2020 - 08:54; edited 1 time in total
ramchop



Joined: Oct 12, 2013

Post   Posted: Jul 05, 2020 - 08:51
FUMBBL Staff
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Grod wrote:
There is a lot of hate for these rosters before they are even tried out. These rosters are supposed to be sub par, but they're not bad.

Even with loners on the Dwarves, the new Old World Alliance team is a solid tier 2 team. They seem to be a neat team - Dwarves + Ogre + human Blitzer for a solid bash base, humans for speed, ball handling and passing and halflings for special teams. Without loner on the Dwarves this would be one of the best rosters, with all the strengths of Dwarv toughness, human speed, stunty tossing and big guy access with very little downside. Loner is needed for balance, and since Dwarves start with all the crucial skills, they are less of a liability with loner.

For Underworld, it is debatable whether the team is better or worse off, but it is interesting.

Don't fear change peoplez! It is a good thing GW have revived blood bowl commercially.


Overall I agree with this. When the Alliance was first leaked, there were cries of it being overpowered. Now with the Loners and the one less blocker the outrage has flipped the other way.

I do think they were a bit too cruel to the flings though. This will surely become the least fielded position in the game.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 05, 2020 - 09:26 Reply with quote Back to top

The point is though loner is absolutely not required. They didn't have to structure the roster this way. They could have done anything. The roster didn't need to have dwarf slayers runner and blitzers mixed with human blitzer thrower and catcher.
Sticking loner randomly about the team is just a lazy way to balance the team. They forced them self into this stupid corner.

The underworld change is fine imo. Doesn't bother me too much either way really.

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sann0638



Joined: Aug 09, 2010

Post   Posted: Jul 05, 2020 - 12:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Grod wrote:
There is a lot of hate for these rosters before they are even tried out. These rosters are supposed to be sub par, but they're not bad.

Even with loners on the Dwarves, the new Old World Alliance team is a solid tier 2 team. They seem to be a neat team - Dwarves + Ogre + human Blitzer for a solid bash base, humans for speed, ball handling and passing and halflings for special teams. Without loner on the Dwarves this would be one of the best rosters, with all the strengths of Dwarv toughness, human speed, stunty tossing and big guy access with very little downside. Loner is needed for balance, and since Dwarves start with all the crucial skills, they are less of a liability with loner.

For Underworld, it is debatable whether the team is better or worse off, but it is interesting.

Don't fear change peoplez! It is a good thing GW have revived blood bowl commercially.


The last sentence bothers me, as it is true, but should not mean that people can't point out flaws. Saying people fear change is a way of negating criticism of poor changes.

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Coffee_Monster



Joined: Aug 01, 2019

Post   Posted: Jul 05, 2020 - 12:29 Reply with quote Back to top

For me only use for the flings is cheaply getting to 11 players to scum stars in REZ.
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Jul 05, 2020 - 12:47 Reply with quote Back to top

The sky isn't falling and I don't think anybody said that, I think it's insincere to label every criticism in such terms.

Most people are just baffled by Loner. It isn't there on UW and Pact, which btw are brilliant as always. Why should OWA be different? Just baffling. I'm baffled. Aren't you baffled as well?


Coffee_Monster wrote:
For me only use for the flings is cheaply getting to 11 players to scum stars in REZ.


That and fouls, mainly. You can do other things as well of course but anything ball or block related is a minefield for non humans on this team.

You're right to point out that stars probably will be a staple of this team in certain formats. Even in brawl/rumbles you can join at lower than average TV and just go Zug or Karla.
Mattius



Joined: Sep 03, 2006

Post   Posted: Jul 05, 2020 - 12:53 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm with Grod fully. Yes I get GW like any company or authority should be open to critism and people have the right to complain. But that also gives others the right to say they are whining!

I generally think people should try them before knocking them. I often see bb2 or TT players complaining about the new pilling on, on Facebook. I ask them the same thing every time, have you actually played the new rules? The answer is always no and I'll call them up on it every time that they actually don't know what they are taking about.

GW have brought a brand new team with a different concept into the game. I believe they will be stronger than people think and finally it may be another team where pro is a worthy skill Smile
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 05, 2020 - 13:27 Reply with quote Back to top

We don't need to play a team with 5 or more Loners to know it will be a bad team.
Also, people here are probably more expert of BB than random guys on Facebook whining about new Piling On.
I don't fear the changes, when they are positive ones, for example I like that Piling On has been nerfed and I don't complain about the UW Gutter Runner, but
adding this team was arguably a bad move, an unlikely mix of Humans, Dwarfs and Halflings which reminds a Dungeonbowl team, when simply adding 0-4 Halflings to Humans would have been a good change in terms of fun and slightly improved a roster which should be the best one according to background.

Who is going to use Loner Halflings? They already suck without Loner, let alone with it.
They could have removed the Dwarf Runner (redundant with the Human Thrower), removed the Troll Slayer, but no Loner on Dwarfs and Halflings.
Coffee_Monster



Joined: Aug 01, 2019

Post   Posted: Jul 05, 2020 - 14:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Dwarves seem there to get guard and do as little as possible apart from adding some durability to the team, dwarf runner is utterly pointless, I’ve already said my piece on the flings.

I’d probably take the troll slayer for the frenzy, maybe useful with one turn attempts, but as always, asking loners to do too much isn’t going to end well.
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Jul 05, 2020 - 14:09 Reply with quote Back to top

I dont get the fluff angle with the OWA team? When you have Humans and then Brettonians, now we have this mix of races but not Elves? I think fluff wise, a Tree would have been a better fit?

I would have preferred the roster to be like the Chaos Pact one, in which one lineman figure of some of the non-human teams being added. The Pact however get Mutations which is their appeal, so perhaps a single positional?

0-16 Human Linemen
0-1 High Elf Thrower
0-1 Pro Elf Catcher
0-1 Dwarf Blitzer
0-1 Halfling
0-1 Treeman

The beauty of the Pact roster is its slow building and you can develop the Renegades with great skill access. Not so easy in the OWA, so you need to work hard at Human Linemen development, but there is no animosity in my roster, so play is smoother (as good races do tend to get along and are not selfish like evil ones).

The Animosity and Loner to justify multiple positionals (and yet exclude elves) just makes no fluff sense. The roster I have above is very basic with Human linemen, but you have a great big guy, the OTTD threat and an awesome passing combo.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 05, 2020 - 14:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Dwarfs should have Animosity for Elves and the other way around.
It's clearly explained in the background, especially Dwarfs bear forever grudge against Elves, Elves are more prone to put aside old quarrels, but they tend to be arrogant and haughty, especially with Dwarfs.
Humans are relatively friendly with Dwarfs and Elves, instead.
Coffee_Monster



Joined: Aug 01, 2019

Post   Posted: Jul 05, 2020 - 14:20 Reply with quote Back to top

My old world roster would be lineman thrown together, unskilled merc team-

0-12 human linemen
0-2 Pro elf linemen
0-2 Longbeards
0-2 flings
0-1 ogre
0-1 tree man.

70k rerolls standard animosity.
Tripleskull



Joined: Oct 12, 2003

Post   Posted: Jul 05, 2020 - 14:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Mattius wrote:
I'm with Grod fully. Yes I get GW like any company or authority should be open to critism and people have the right to complain. But that also gives others the right to say they are whining!

I generally think people should try them before knocking them. I often see bb2 or TT players complaining about the new pilling on, on Facebook. I ask them the same thing every time, have you actually played the new rules? The answer is always no and I'll call them up on it every time that they actually don't know what they are taking about.

GW have brought a brand new team with a different concept into the game. I believe they will be stronger than people think and finally it may be another team where pro is a worthy skill Smile


I am with You all the way.

Anecdotally, I tried the New piling on one time and won the tournament. Was using it to prove it was playable - in the right circumstances. Smile

I think OWA will be quite a bit stronger than most people seem to think, at least in tournament play. It will be somewhat advanced to play with so many loners but the team has plenty of upsides. I am not sure where they will land, but My guess is that EB tier 3 would be stretching it.

Without Loner the team would have been a nightmare in tournament play. I am very happy that GW did not just start a power creep.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 05, 2020 - 14:26 Reply with quote Back to top

BB is not just NAF tournament play, though.
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