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Dalfort



Joined: Jun 23, 2008

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 19:18 Reply with quote Back to top

The problem I see with trying to implement Seasons on a per number of games basis is that we all play at different rates and for me there needs to be a time frame so we can pinpoint the start and end of the Season. The number of games is merely a factor in the amount of funds a coach receives to rebuild with. So monthly or bi-monthly seasons with an appropriate ladder/ranking system tagged to it. Is it possible that the League Division with all it customisability is the place for it?

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 19:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Why do we need to pinpoint the start and the end?
It's simple: you play a team for 25 games, at the end of the 25th the Season rule is applied.
If you don't play a lot it's not a problem, Season rule is not related to chronological real life time, or a calendar, it's related to the number of games played by a team. Every 25 games the rule is applied cyclically.
Question Am I failing to understand something? Honest question.


Last edited by MattDakka on Jul 07, 2020 - 19:28; edited 2 times in total
Uber



Joined: Mar 22, 2004

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 19:26 Reply with quote Back to top

I would like the idea of seasons as a meta event for box/ranked teams, to run a 10 teams round robin tournament that feeds into top 4 elimination. You re-draft as you enter the tournament.

Completely optional, just like BAR brawls or RRR, just a different way to schedule/organize your play, with bonus bragging rights for winning these things.

Maybe add a limitation that you can't re-draft more often than every 10 games.

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Dalfort



Joined: Jun 23, 2008

Post   Posted: Jul 07, 2020 - 23:52 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Why do we need to pinpoint the start and the end?
It's simple: you play a team for 25 games, at the end of the 25th the Season rule is applied.
If you don't play a lot it's not a problem, Season rule is not related to chronological real life time, or a calendar, it's related to the number of games played by a team. Every 25 games the rule is applied cyclically.
Question Am I failing to understand something? Honest question.


A Season is a period of time. Autumn, Winter, Spring or Summer all periods of time. Sporting Seasons run from a start date until an end date, granted most sports run a scheduled number of fixtures that all competitors complete. In the Box environment applying a fixed number of games would mean that teams would be rebuilding for their own personal Season, some prolific coaches could be on their 3rd season before other had completed their first, what would be the point? Other than to enforce the soft ageing effect spoken of earlier.

I am not saying anyone is wrong, I just can't see the point of applying the process is such a meaningless way.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2020 - 00:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Dalfort wrote:

I am not saying anyone is wrong, I just can't see the point of applying the process is such a meaningless way.


This is a league mechanic to even things up by preventing bigger teams from getting too big and helping battered teams to recover.

If it helps, try calling it a "turnip".

Edit: English winter isn't the same as Australian winter or African winter. Wink

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smallman



Joined: Sep 24, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2020 - 04:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Have read this thread and still don't understand seasons exactly Sad New ideas should be made very clear.

A change to stop high TV mono activators dominating box is badly needed.
Off peak activation times badly need to be 30mins or an hour, or we keep losing players.
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2020 - 09:28 Reply with quote Back to top

I dont think "seasons" need to be chronologically tied to a time period in real life. I think each team should have their seasons recorded automatically in their bio somewhere and its a challenge to try and beat your season record and go for a 25-0 season.

Maybe at periods of time, tournaments can be held where a team needs a minimum number of wins in their current season to get in... say 20. Then these "powerhouse"teams can play in a seasonal tournament of some sort.
PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2020 - 09:44 Reply with quote Back to top

I have said this many times before but I'll say it again.

I am aware my view is influenced by my own playing choices.

I dont think we have the player base to implement seasons and have both R and B.

So, I would combine R and B and have a 'flag' on the team for Scheduler activated only.

Then I would advocate a season based competitive division, with a Blackbox style game generation, and I have always said around 20-25 games is where I would start.

I also think it doesn't need to be based on time, but on games played. BB2's CCL is based on time and is massively game-able for that reason.

Tournaments would be very easy to design, just allow teams to 'end season' any time they have at least X games played. And only allow the game scheduler to schedule games with X-1 or less games played. Then Tournaments can be played from X games onwards, with instant season ends for every team that gets knocked out.

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Last edited by PurpleChest on Jul 08, 2020 - 10:22; edited 2 times in total
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2020 - 09:53 Reply with quote Back to top

I wrote this up somewhere a while back I think it would be the best way to implement seasons, especially working in conjunction with the blackbox tourney thing that is already a thing. Again I would say there is no point doing this until we know whether the new edition rumours are true or not.

* Point 1 prep for this new way Blackbox works - when a team is moved to the new Blackbox from the old divisions they are counted as having completed a Season if they have played 20 games+. So must go through a re-draft, counting that teams final 20 games to work out re-draft money etc... This will even the playing field a bit. If they have played under 20 games they are considered as playing in Season 1 of that team’s history and carry on in the new division until they hit 20 games.


• I would revert the scheduler back to its older form where it just picks teams based on closest TV. Maybe include something to stop mirror games happening as frequently, but aside from that just go off TV, keep the old 15% TV bracket for first 20 games. (I would not like this now, but in the context of the other changes above and below this would be preferable).

• A team that is in their 1st Season cannot be scheduled against a team that is in their 2nd Season or more.

• There is no time limit to a season, it is purely based on games played.

• When a team hits their 20 game season limit they have a choice. They are presented with 2 buttons. 1 – Re-draft. 2 – Play-Offs

1 – If you click re-draft the teams Season number goes up by 1, and the team goes through their re-draft phase as detailed in the official rules.
2 – if you click Play-offs the team is ready to be entered in to a major as per the official rules. And that team’s season does not end until they are knocked out of the tournament they are in. This team is essentially in limbo at this point the team cannot be selected to be drawn using the Blackbox scheduler. The team either has to be play in a tournament, or the coach can change their mind and enter the team in to the re-draft phase.

• A team can move in to the Play off phase any time they want, they do not have to play 20 games, regardless of games played as soon as that team is knocked out of the tournament (or wins it) they have to move in to the re-draft phase.

I would also combine R and B in to one tournament division, teams that do not want their R team in B, can move them to L which is essentially unranked pick up games, and joining leagues. When a new team is moved to the new B I outline above they would be forced to redraft if they have played 20+ games which would stop people whinging about R team advantage. because there would be almost no advantage after a redraft when moving from R to B

NB - 20 games is just my initial thoughts, this could be 25 or 30 if preferable.

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D_Arquebus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2020 - 11:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Culling your team is not particularly fun.

It really really really needs Wants to Retire implemented as well or you end up with very few Super Star/ Legends and Chumps which are not much more fun to play against than the current high TV monsters.

Pressure on TV from Seasons just reduces any interesting, odd balls builds and makes everyone have to strive for super lean and efficient builds.

FWIW, my meagre games in Box would almost dry up if I couldn't build long term teams with bloaty skill sets and interesting builds. Razz . That is, what makes anyone think that Box coaches wont "get mad" at Seasons? Smile

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2020 - 11:27 Reply with quote Back to top

This is indeed the problem really. The game isn't and has never been designed with prolongued high tv play, or super bloaty teams in mind. Personally I have never found high TV interesting, as I have always found that teams pretty much lose their unique character etc. But that's just my opinion, and I totally get that some people enjoy that part of the game, even though its not meant to exist.


Anyway, this is all theory stuff, I doubt seasons will be implemented, as I've said a few times, we need to see what happens with the next edition of the game first.

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D_Arquebus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2020 - 11:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Thing is you will still be hitting teams that are comfortably 2mil+ due to being at a different part of their 'season'.

So you are simply adding in extra book keeping and the angst of removing WTR players or even fully healthy and unhurt players who wont fit in the budget.

I don't necessarily build massive TV teams either, but I like interesting players. And some players take a long time and or many skills to be what you would like to play with. Those builds kinda dry up in Seasons, because even protected they will WTR sooner or later...

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2020 - 11:39 Reply with quote Back to top

WTR?
Rawlf



Joined: Jul 15, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2020 - 11:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Like for Dalfort, seasons dont feel right for me in a perpetual league like Blackbox, too. It just feels forced and artificial.
And still I would say let us do it, if there is a need for it. But is there?

What exactly is the problem we want to solve with seasons?

Is it that teams grow too big? What is so bad about that? I mean I understand if it doesnt go along with your idea of aesthetics or fun. I find it a bit silly, too. But there are supposedly also the high TV monoactivators, so some people seem to like it, and their opinion isnt of less value than mine, or yours.
And also, you can keep your own tv low, and the scheduler will do its best to find a matching partner for you. Blackbox isnt like a scheduled league where old high tv teams and newcomers are forced to play each other once every season, before the newcomer could even build up a bit. That is where the season rule feels right to me.

Granted, sometimes the Blackbox will match you with a high tv team at a big tv gap. It happens far from often though, I could not find a single instance in the 3 recent matches pages from MattDakka that I checked.
And this type of game is something you can prepare your team for and is part of the deal. And it is a much softer deal than the league I mentioned.

Even if such a game happens, it is not necessarily onesided. I just played Arktoris high tv Chaos team with my (rookie protected) Pro Elves at -480TV. The wizard absolutely tilted the game, I didnt even need a good Eldril. I should say thanks to inducements, I had the stronger side here.
Sometimes people link more insane matchups, and some are plain evil. But most of the time they have a really close result or even an underdog win, so how much of a problem is it, really? I mean in reality, not in theory bowl?

And if there were seasons, wouldnt a game between a redraft-minmaxed 19 games into a season killer chaos and an old, worn down Pro Elf team still happen? And be just as bad if not worse?

Seasons in Blackbox seem to me like throwing out the baby with the bath water. You create a lot of hassle and ill feelings for many for next to no improvement realistically.
D_Arquebus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jul 08, 2020 - 11:43 Reply with quote Back to top

WTR = Want to Retire... a roll that has to exceed no# of played 'seasons' or add 20k*Seasons to each rebuy thereafter to retain that player.

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