99 coaches online • Server time: 20:34
Index Search Usergroups Profile
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post New passing rules an...goto Post A Short & Sweet ...goto Post Ruleset changes
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
DonnyRainboe



Joined: Sep 13, 2011

Post 9 Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 04:29 Reply with quote Back to top

soultoken wrote:
In a min max environment I guess we will be going for random skills and firing players that get a skill you don't like. Maybe not on Blitzers but linemen etc i could see this being a thing.


Agree.

This#
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 05:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Carnis wrote:
mrt1212 wrote:

*Urge to spite increases*

"I'll show you competitive play with my legion of sneaky git pro elf linemen!"

I have 4 cents to add to this discussion:

1) Go read the new sneaky git rules and delete above comment. Sneaky git in 2020 is buffed in a very significant and meaningful way, becoming the best fouling skill of new Blood Bowl (you are immune to sendoffs for no reason, you are less likely to sent off after killing your opponent, you can run to safety after fouling). Better than dirty player +2 on the deathroller.

2) This random skillups was a good idea / chance to cleanup the skilltable. Other than general skills (where I would only delete FEND), much of the skills available are so worth nothing that essentially taking a random skill means buying a 6spp skill for 30spp.

Skills I would instantly delete from the random table are too many to name, but multiple block is the prime offender being useless to ultimately everyone (even a dark elf assassin is better with block/dodge for survival & sidestep for free blocks). edit: marginally useful to treemen

3) Comment about SPP hoarders and SPP avoiders was a good one, I think we will have dwarf runners picking their favourite stats (because they are SPP hoarders), meaning every dwarf team will run a block, dodge, movement8 runner after 10ish games. Whereas other more balanced carry teams like orks will be splitting the SPP all round which means merry mb guard spam will be ubiquitous and orks will be very uniform with 0 stats in the early stages.

4) Ogres might be viable for random primary after taking a 40k block for first skill.


I was not being ironic. I am hella stoked for SG...Love fouling, truly a joy of the game.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 08:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Yup. SG = foul every turn

_________________
Image
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 26, 2020 - 16:48 Reply with quote Back to top

I think most things have already been said but here is my thoughts on the matter from a tabletop perspective.

First of all I think that the game is primarily balanced around the tabletop to begin with so playing somewhere about 8-16 games a season probably is what the game is balanced around before you have to redraft players.

So when you discuss player progression you need to take into account how long you think that particular players will stay with a team, for how many season will you be able to pay for their services.

Different players will probably benefit more or less for selecting random skills than others. A player that can easily rack up 30+ SPP a season you probably can wait to skill up and pick specific strong skills with allot easier even if they become more expensive... but how many seasons will you be able to keep them around?

It also is really difficult to know how useful a Strip Ball, Dauntless lineman can be rather than one with just Block for the same TV cost. You actually might find this lineman have a rather interesting role in your team you would never contemplate before you had that player. This player have one role to play against a strong team and another against a fast running team.

There also is opportunity cost... the fact that you gain skills early in a season can be quite significant, especially on players that might only get a few SPP each season. If your league are say 10-12 games long then most linemans might not be able to scrape up more than 6-8 SPP... and if you select a randomly generated skill you get more skills for more games. In a league this is quite important.

Blood Bowl are not balanced around perpetual leagues or teams of very high TV. In those environments you simply will have to accept that the rules as written are not really well balanced and that some sort of house rules need to be in place or imbalances just have to be accepted the way they are.

In my opinion the choice of skills and whether you take random or selected skills will depend highly on how fast players gain SPP and how many games per season you generally play. So, it will be very difficult to say how different players will skill up.
If you also play in a continuous league settings where teams are redrafted between seasons you will have to think about the future and for how long you expect to keep players around and how often you replace them or keep them on your roster.
Cyrus-Havoc



Joined: Sep 15, 2006

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 15:22 Reply with quote Back to top

You will not be able to keep many players at the end of the season so surely it's best to get something in the way of skills on those you know won't be kept.
The other point to remember is the fun involved in random skills.
I will certainly try random skills maybe even on a whole team!
After season two you will be able to keep even fewer players.

_________________
Not Undead but perhaps the oldest living coach!
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2020 - 21:06 Reply with quote Back to top

For the purpose of minmaxing, if one team has a kicker, a wrestler, a dirty player that all cost 10k less than the other side's hand picked normal-skilled chaps, that basically means a free chosen secondary skill. So this introduces a different element of luck in team tailoring, which substitutes the previous "luck" element in getting doubles and stats.

There's now an element of choice when you are deciding to attempt to get the advantage or instead playing it safe but more costly, which wasn't there before.

Do you feel lucky, punk?
mekutata



Joined: May 03, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 29, 2020 - 15:38 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
Carnis wrote:
mrt1212 wrote:

*Urge to spite increases*

"I'll show you competitive play with my legion of sneaky git pro elf linemen!"

I have 4 cents to add to this discussion:

1) Go read the new sneaky git rules and delete above comment. Sneaky git in 2020 is buffed in a very significant and meaningful way, becoming the best fouling skill of new Blood Bowl (you are immune to sendoffs for no reason, you are less likely to sent off after killing your opponent, you can run to safety after fouling). Better than dirty player +2 on the deathroller.

2) This random skillups was a good idea / chance to cleanup the skilltable. Other than general skills (where I would only delete FEND), much of the skills available are so worth nothing that essentially taking a random skill means buying a 6spp skill for 30spp.

Skills I would instantly delete from the random table are too many to name, but multiple block is the prime offender being useless to ultimately everyone (even a dark elf assassin is better with block/dodge for survival & sidestep for free blocks). edit: marginally useful to treemen

3) Comment about SPP hoarders and SPP avoiders was a good one, I think we will have dwarf runners picking their favourite stats (because they are SPP hoarders), meaning every dwarf team will run a block, dodge, movement8 runner after 10ish games. Whereas other more balanced carry teams like orks will be splitting the SPP all round which means merry mb guard spam will be ubiquitous and orks will be very uniform with 0 stats in the early stages.

4) Ogres might be viable for random primary after taking a 40k block for first skill.


I was not being ironic. I am hella stoked for SG...Love fouling, truly a joy of the game.


You can foul now in Turn 16 and dance with the remaining Movement.

_________________
Image
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 29, 2020 - 15:51 Reply with quote Back to top

nooo you still need the run up on turn 16! RUN UP!
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic