88 coaches online • Server time: 15:33
Index Search Usergroups Profile
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post Bb2020 Will you reti...goto Post SteelBowl Online 202...goto Post Eur'Open Online
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 07:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Lyracian wrote:

Well that was foolish. Now we will have to sent all your results back to the government department that issued them and ignore any possible conclusion until the study is taken again.


Study? That was just code. Cumbersome, unwieldy, unoptimized code. Thankfully when it doesn't work one tends to mess with it until it does... And if does, then you try to improve it :O

Barring special cases like that attribute that lets you reroll ATC 1s, or the biased ref inducement...

It's an average of 10.1 fouls before being sent off.

With DP, it's 6 removals per game, 3 of which are casualties, 1.5 are KOs, and 1.5 are ko's that won't happen Vs dwarves or ogres Razz

Just /stomp, really
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 09:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Doofr wrote:


Because offense dont foul ?

The incintive here in offense, is to bash the los then gangfoul someone, you should have after that often the men advantage and you should be able to continue to slowly attack in pack ,to continue fouling the defense and stall often easily .

Some people already played like that before, now it will become lot more popular i guess. Wink


What I meant was that if you are passive the opponent will be able to make easy fouls on you either if you defend or attack.

The defender usually have the advantage after they recovered the players on LOS as the attacker need to defend the ball.
neubau



Joined: Nov 12, 2016

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 09:35 Reply with quote Back to top

CAB wrote:

The defender usually have the advantage after they recovered the players on LOS as the attacker need to defend the ball.


this is so wrong i really have to wonder about your "enough games" statement. offense gets 3 los blocks, the blitz and the first foul. afterwards they can position in a way that makes a counter foul either hard or just put a rookie in harms way. if the offense gets two or more removals it is also going to be really hard for the defense to recover.

_________________
Image
Image
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 09:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah neubau is correct again. CAB I enjoy the healthy discussion you are bringing the table as it is all in good spirits, polite and so on. But you are coming out with some corkers. I think you should come play some games here. Get a few thousand games under ya belt. There is no better place to train Smile

_________________
Image
Lasgalen



Joined: Jun 30, 2018

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 10:07 Reply with quote Back to top

losing first turn vs an heavy bashy team with a lot of guards and 1 dp (can be also the only machine with st7 and dp +2 uhm Rolling Eyes... wonder which team has it) sneaky git can be handy too... will be deadly to some teams low av on defense.

Yeah this is a buff to defense HAHAHA! like the passing buff, sure!
Badoek



Joined: May 17, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 10:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
Yeah neubau is correct again. CAB I enjoy the healthy discussion you are bringing the table as it is all in good spirits, polite and so on. But you are coming out with some corkers. I think you should come play some games here. Get a few thousand games under ya belt. There is no better place to train Smile


pushing drugs are we? I feel some congratulations to CAB are in order: Well done for hanging around but not getting addicted and "ruining" your life playing this game more than once per day Very Happy

(Yes, maybe I'm just jealous)
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 10:45 Reply with quote Back to top

neubau wrote:
CAB wrote:

The defender usually have the advantage after they recovered the players on LOS as the attacker need to defend the ball.


this is so wrong i really have to wonder about your "enough games" statement. offense gets 3 los blocks, the blitz and the first foul. afterwards they can position in a way that makes a counter foul either hard or just put a rookie in harms way. if the offense gets two or more removals it is also going to be really hard for the defense to recover.


One removal against a bash team is almost something you count on and hope for less... Wink

Since I never play high TV games I guess that is what you come from... the leagues that I usually play in or even online is relatively low TV environments where what I say is true.

I almost always elect to defend first with almost all teams as I find that defending give me a better advantage, especially early in a game. I also always like to keep one or two DP player in my team to foul if the opponent is too passive and they have a stronger team than I do.

The offensive team need to use four to five players to defend the ball... if they are not interested in scoring and play passively I will have 9-10 players to engage the rest of their team.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 11:47 Reply with quote Back to top

CAB wrote:
neubau wrote:
CAB wrote:

The defender usually have the advantage after they recovered the players on LOS as the attacker need to defend the ball.


this is so wrong i really have to wonder about your "enough games" statement. offense gets 3 los blocks, the blitz and the first foul. afterwards they can position in a way that makes a counter foul either hard or just put a rookie in harms way. if the offense gets two or more removals it is also going to be really hard for the defense to recover.


One removal against a bash team is almost something you count on and hope for less... Wink

Since I never play high TV games I guess that is what you come from... the leagues that I usually play in or even online is relatively low TV environments where what I say is true.

I almost always elect to defend first with almost all teams as I find that defending give me a better advantage, especially early in a game. I also always like to keep one or two DP player in my team to foul if the opponent is too passive and they have a stronger team than I do.

The offensive team need to use four to five players to defend the ball... if they are not interested in scoring and play passively I will have 9-10 players to engage the rest of their team.


I often elected to defend first too in the previous 3 editions (LRB5, CRP and 2016 edition), especially when I play with a fast team. However in this new edition its a bad call I think. Because of the new wildly inaccurate pass rule you never want a situation in which you are passing the ball in which a WIP is possible and the opposition has another turn. Now I am aware that this is an infrequent theory bowl scenario, but because of the threat of WIP you always want the last turn of the game so you can try a risky pass to win without fear of the ball going somewhere ridiculous and your opponent getting it and scoring. This coupled with getting the boot in first turn means first turn is more important again imo.

_________________
Image
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 12:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
I often elected to defend first too in the previous 3 editions (LRB5, CRP and 2016 edition), especially when I play with a fast team. However in this new edition its a bad call I think. Because of the new wildly inaccurate pass rule you never want a situation in which you are passing the ball in which a WIP is possible and the opposition has another turn. Now I am aware that this is an infrequent theory bowl scenario, but because of the threat of WIP you always want the last turn of the game so you can try a risky pass to win without fear of the ball going somewhere ridiculous and your opponent getting it and scoring. This coupled with getting the boot in first turn means first turn is more important again imo.


I certainly agree with the WIP pass and that is something you will have to account for both on offence and defence.

On the other hand I don't think there is any particular large reason why you otherwise should fear defending in this edition. The WIP should be worse for the attacker and not defender as the defender get the last turn.

Team will be as dangerous now as they were previously for bashing lines of skirmish.
sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 12:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Have to add to your analysis that Perfect Defence (becoming Solid defence) and Blitz! have been nerfed and that's another little thing against team which kicks / defends (I like the new kick-off table but that's not the point).

_________________
I like cheese but don't call me skaven !
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 12:15 Reply with quote Back to top

CAB wrote:

Team will be as dangerous now as they were previously for bashing lines of skirmish.


In terms of raw numbers they will be the same (excluding Claw for now). However I think given time the prepensity to foul every first turn with DP and SG means more damage is inevtiable.

The last few editions didn't have auto turn 1 foul.

Then there are also a couple of 2+ Dps about as well which will need consideration.

_________________
Image
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 13:09 Reply with quote Back to top

sebco wrote:
Have to add to your analysis that Perfect Defence (becoming Solid defence) and Blitz! have been nerfed and that's another little thing against team which kicks / defends (I like the new kick-off table but that's not the point).


I think those are better now as they could potentially be very disruptive before. They can still be but not as devastating as they used to be.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 13:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
CAB wrote:

Team will be as dangerous now as they were previously for bashing lines of skirmish.


In terms of raw numbers they will be the same (excluding Claw for now). However I think given time the prepensity to foul every first turn with DP and SG means more damage is inevtiable.

The last few editions didn't have auto turn 1 foul.

Then there are also a couple of 2+ Dps about as well which will need consideration.


I agree that fouling will in some way replace the old claw/MB/Piling On combination... although Piling On was essentially removed in 2016 already but I is still pervasive in Blood Bowl II unfortunately...

Another subtle change with MB/Claw is that it only works on the active players turn. So if you go down from a Both Down or Skull result in your own turn the opponent can't apply those skills.

Teams like Black Orc could potentiall use Pile Driver to good effect to with cheap Bribes. Grab and Pile Driver could be nasty... Wink

Moving some of the damage to fouling have a few, in my opinion, subtle changes. For once you don't get SPP for casualties (unless in rare cases) and you can in general protect yourself against fouling by clever positioning... at least against good fouls. Fouls also have a risk to it. Fouling is also available to more teams as a viable way to eject opposing players from the field.

I do agree that fouling on turn one will be more common from most teams.
Doofr



Joined: Nov 04, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 19:26 Reply with quote Back to top

CAB wrote:
neubau wrote:
CAB wrote:

The defender usually have the advantage after they recovered the players on LOS as the attacker need to defend the ball.


this is so wrong i really have to wonder about your "enough games" statement. offense gets 3 los blocks, the blitz and the first foul. afterwards they can position in a way that makes a counter foul either hard or just put a rookie in harms way. if the offense gets two or more removals it is also going to be really hard for the defense to recover.


One removal against a bash team is almost something you count on and hope for less... Wink

Since I never play high TV games I guess that is what you come from... the leagues that I usually play in or even online is relatively low TV environments where what I say is true.



Thats nothing to do with High TV.

Sometimes i realy have the feeling that you work in aftersales for GW.

You like all the new rules, you are explaining each time how their meaning is an advancement for the gameplay.
And you knew all the rules in advance.

If its not the case, you should ask GW to hire you and pay you to try to convince people on forums how good the new rules are. Wink

_________________
Image
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 20:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Doofr wrote:

Thats nothing to do with High TV.

Sometimes i realy have the feeling that you work in aftersales for GW.

You like all the new rules, you are explaining each time how their meaning is an advancement for the gameplay.
And you knew all the rules in advance.

If its not the case, you should ask GW to hire you and pay you to try to convince people on forums how good the new rules are. Wink


Sure it has all to do with high TV and loads of MB, DP and Guard players in a team and all of the skills on the same players. That is for most teams at relatively high TV.
I rarely have more than one player removed at the LOS in my games even if they all go down and one player is Blitzed. That only happen with a high frequency using the Piling On skill with Claw and MB and multiple such players. We can bring out the math if you wish.

I have told several times that I have just played with the new rules for a while due to the rules leaks, that is all. Just because you like something does not mean anything but that you like it.

I also don't like the new WIP in the passing rules... we played that as written in the book and to some degree I liked that.

So I don't like everything...

That does not mean I don't like the overall changes to the game... this speak to my vision of the game. It becomes more about lower team values where I think the game are best balanced but you still can develop players to some degree as you need less SPP to level up now. So you need less games to develop players.

I like all of the changes based on my experience playing with the new rules so far. There are many subtle changes that overall give a slightly fresh feeling of the game. Although it still plays as before, there are no major changes to tactics.

The "Sneaky Git" skill do add some interesting new fouling options for many teams.

I have played BB since it was first released and I'm as much a fan of this as anyone else here, nothing more. I don't even live in the UK so I have no affiliation to the games creators.
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic