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Poll
Should TTM pass and normal pass be seperate?
Seperate TTM pass and normal pass
38%
 38%  [ 23 ]
Only one total pass.
61%
 61%  [ 37 ]
Total Votes : 60


Thresh



Joined: Apr 12, 2020

Post   Posted: Apr 18, 2021 - 23:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Hi! I just had a question out of curiosity. What do people think are the pros and cons of stunty teams having a pass action in addition to a TTM action? Nuffle knows they could use the extra help.
PaddyMick



Joined: Jan 03, 2012

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2021 - 01:06 Reply with quote Back to top

I get what you're saying. But. Give them too much help and they stop being so fun to play though innit - also one turner ttm td's should be rare imo, doing this makes them easier.

Ogres got a buff in this respect for 2020: Kick Team Mate is basically another TTM, and no longer uses a blitz action.
pielover101



Joined: May 17, 2018

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2021 - 02:28 Reply with quote Back to top

In bb2020, with Fumblerooskie (+ On The Ball) you can build to reliably *attempt* to move the ball forward a large distance without passing, thus saving your pass for TTM. I'd rather someone have to build for it than bake it into the basic rules.
ben_awesome



Joined: May 11, 2016

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2021 - 03:02 Reply with quote Back to top

with kick team mate, you pass and kick anyway. pas and ttm is too much.
stej



Joined: Jan 05, 2009

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2021 - 10:19 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd more go down the lines of saying TTM gives +X to the pass roll for TTM attempts if one wished to make it easier / harder
ArthurWynne



Joined: Sep 23, 2015

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2021 - 11:27 Reply with quote Back to top

It's very hard to interact with TTM, so you can't make it too easy. The kick is one of the best ways to counter it, so TTM using up your pass action is a good decision.
uzkulak



Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2021 - 12:29 Reply with quote Back to top

its a pity they have to be linked, but I do see some of the logic behind it. TTM isnt only for OTTDs though, so the rule shouldnt just be written for that scenario.

Ideally it would be good to see bombs, ball passing and stunty passing all be separate actions, but I can see why in theory its too much in one turn.

My problem though is that I dont feel this is consistent with other rules - move, hand off, move, pass, move can take you from one end of the pitch to the other for quite a few teams as it stands and isn't less "realistic" than pass + TTM. the typical TTM sequence of move, hand off, step, (shorter) pass, move is way more restrictive in terms of distance - before taking account of all the "fun" factors like eating your teammate/how far you can lob the little ones etc.

Maybe just limit it so that the combined pass and TTM range doesn't exceed a long bomb? ie short pass + short pass or quick pass + long pass is ok.
DrDeath



Joined: Mar 27, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2021 - 13:11 Reply with quote Back to top

I agree with the other guys here - if you could pass and TTM you would just get too many cheesy one-turners, plus stunties should be harder to play anyway. That's always been part of the attraction, and it wouldn't fit the fluff if they started getting really good overall records. (For the record I don't like the new snotling roster for that reason - they actually are pretty good in the right hands, which feels wrong!)
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2021 - 14:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Probably separating TTM and normal pass could improve too much the odds.
I think that a good compromise to improve the TTM could be adding Sure Hands to the Agility skill list (i.e. Sure Hands could be taken as General AND Agility) or alternatively, adding a positional with either Kick-Off Return or Sure Hands.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2021 - 19:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Well Hefty is half way there as they get P access on normal the new On the Ball skill.

Also new rules all Stunty players can just take random General skills. That should increase the amount of Sure Hands (as well as Block) we see on the teams.
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2021 - 20:38 Reply with quote Back to top

PaddyMick wrote:
Ogres got a buff in this respect for 2020: Kick Team Mate is basically another TTM, and no longer uses a blitz action.

It doesn't use a pass action, but it is quite poor. Perhaps very, very rarely you could do both a pass and a kick. On occasion it could help in theory if the snot to be thrown is outside handoff receiving range. But I think generally the kick is even worse than the pass. If you do a long kick the snotling is likely to fall hurt. And the kicker is marginally more expensive for such a boon.

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Thresh



Joined: Apr 12, 2020

Post   Posted: Apr 19, 2021 - 20:52 Reply with quote Back to top

I think it would maybe not be much of a buff, since the stunty throwing the ball is terrible already. I think it would maybe provide too much of a buff for Underworld, but there they still have the 2+ animosity roll
Alien_the_Alien



Joined: Apr 22, 2020

Post   Posted: Apr 21, 2021 - 16:49 Reply with quote Back to top

I feel like even if you want to boost TTM, then it would be better to change the TTM rules themselves rather than introduce a new stat just for stunties.

garyt1 wrote:
PaddyMick wrote:
Ogres got a buff in this respect for 2020: Kick Team Mate is basically another TTM, and no longer uses a blitz action.

It doesn't use a pass action, but it is quite poor. Perhaps very, very rarely you could do both a pass and a kick. On occasion it could help in theory if the snot to be thrown is outside handoff receiving range. But I think generally the kick is even worse than the pass. If you do a long kick the snotling is likely to fall hurt. And the kicker is marginally more expensive for such a boon.


I mean, the point of the Punter is to get access to leader. Kick Team Mate is a situational skill that you will use because no other ogre is available, or for OTTD.
It's a slight boost but it's still a boost.
MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Apr 22, 2021 - 04:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Personally I'd like to see Kick The Other Team's Mate, where Runt Punters can boot *anyone* with Right Stuff

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