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snorkelwanted



Joined: Jun 04, 2019

Post   Posted: Oct 26, 2020 - 21:49 Reply with quote Back to top

One dice with Brawler ->

Odds of Skull/BD down from 12/36 to 8/36.
Odds of Push up from 12/36 to 14/36.
Odds of a Pow/DefStumbles up from 12/36 to 14/36.
snorkelwanted



Joined: Jun 04, 2019

Post   Posted: Oct 26, 2020 - 22:01 Reply with quote Back to top

As for 2 dice uphill, it gets you from 4/36 of a POW/DefStumb to 4/27 (assuming no block/dodge which is kind of a best case scenario). This is a desperate play considering it can't even be a blitz on the ball.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 26, 2020 - 23:41 Reply with quote Back to top

On a Big guy you could see it as you might get to use that Brawl in about three to five games before you get to even pick the block and then you could have both Brawl AND Guard on that Ogre for example for the same TV.

You are not considering the opportunity cost as well as other skill utilities at stake here.

Brawl is a pretty strong skill for a Big Guy as it means you need to invest less SPP to get it much earlier and you also can get other skills earlier too. In a league that run for say 10 games that is pretty important, after this you will need to redraft that player and cost is a factor there too.

No one is suggesting that Block is not a much stronger skill, it obviously is.

But for a Big Guy it is a pretty strong skill in most table top leagues that last around 8-12 games per season. This is pretty much what the game is designed around and why situational skill now will be worthwhile as they are faster to get and cost less TV.

I probably would just stick with three to four random strength skill on my Ogre rather than wait for Block in almost all situations. I get to enjoy more skills and I also get them allot sooner. If I get Brawl for 10k TV I would not be sad. Big Guys might also be one of the players you don't redraft as they can usually get some cheap SPP fast through casualties to get a few random skills early in a season.
pokrjax



Joined: Dec 01, 2014

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2020 - 00:44 Reply with quote Back to top

For me, in an 8 game league an ogre needs guard and he's done. There's no way I'd take random skill choices just to stack him with marginal skills, of which brawler is one, and perhaps never get the one skill I really need. In a longer league or across multiple seasons, I'd save up for block.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2020 - 01:45 Reply with quote Back to top

A Juggernaut and Grab Ogre would not be bad instead of Guard for example... I can make that list pretty long. The only skill I really would not want is Pile Driver as I would never Foul with a Big Guy unless I'm really desperate.

While I agree that Guard is a high priority, I'm not sure I actually would skill him up with Guard just because... it depends.

I still think that when redrafting I probably would favour other positional players to keep rather than the Ogre, saving up for Block would not be very useful and even Guard might come too late to matter, it depends on if I get lucky with a CAS and a MVP or several CAS in the first two or three games for the 6SPP. You don't know before hand if the Ogre will get any CAS or MVP and how long it will take to get them.

I think it is too arbitrary to know what you would do as it depends on the circumstances.

Brawl is not a bad skill and it depends on how you use your Big Guy how much you value that skill. Even a small increase in downing and avoiding turn overs can lead to more SPP on that player and a better progression early. I probably would value Guard more as well in almost all situation and just get Brawl as a random skill when it happens.
Bellenrode



Joined: May 02, 2021

Post   Posted: May 03, 2021 - 11:28 Reply with quote Back to top

I can see a Brawler being picked for Big Guys (who have ST access as their primary), but not much else.

You are much more likely to re-roll a single Both Down with a Mummy/Tomb Guardian/Ogre just to avoid a turnover/going down than you are to re-roll a Both Down when you have Block, because players who can easily get Block are fine with taking "nothing happens" result and trying better next time (and they can take skills such as Tackle or Mighty Blow instead as their secondary skill).

Could be a nice random skill in some cases though.
Kransky



Joined: Sep 12, 2005

Post   Posted: May 03, 2021 - 13:10 Reply with quote Back to top

I disagree with the idea that ‘Brawler is a nice skill but you would never pick it’. The key part of the skill is not necessarily the increase in knockdowns (which is nice to have) but the reductions in fails. Cutting your turnovers in half on two dice blocks is a BIG increase in reliability for Big Guys who really struggle for reliability.

Brawler will be picked in two ways - Big Guys where it’s one of the top two skills (with guard) and as a ‘fair’ skill for non-big guys who are rolling a random on the strength chart (where Brawler is still better than some, like Thick Skull or Multiple Block).

Although the ideal scenario is to save up for block instead, there are many situations where that isn’t feasible. There may be many games where you are close to redrafting or about the play the final where you want to grab some sort of skill as you won’t be redrafting the Ogre anyway.
spleggy



Joined: Aug 13, 2015

Post   Posted: May 06, 2021 - 22:27 Reply with quote Back to top

What about 3 dice blocks? I'm thinking in many teams that have strength access only players there are plenty of opportunities to support them with enough assists/guard so as to make this possible at least sometimes.

I think there are 8 fail states out of a possible outcome set of 216 members. 7 of these involve at least one both down so again we cut this down to a third which is always going to better odds than attempting a loner 4+ or even 3+ (because even if we pass loner we could still get another fail state)

After that looking at the states with at least one brawler-able result gets even messier than the two dice but over time there should be a few extra POWs to be gained I would have thought.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: May 09, 2021 - 20:36 Reply with quote Back to top

I like Brawler as a new skill for the game but doubt I would ever actually choose to take it. Players ending up with it as a random skill I would be fine with keeping on the team.

Brawler adds 4% to the change to POW a Blodge player. Pro adds about 7.7%

It is slightly better for big guys but a Random Secondary skill costs the same a picked Primary. I would rather gamble on getting Block or save up to get it than select Brawler. Otherwise I would be quite happy with all random Str skills on a Big Guy to keep cost down.

It was mentioned Brawler might have a small chance of seeing use to help with OTT. Even then though you would have to have no TRR left or an important reason not to use it. Overtime format where the score is already tied is the only thing I can think of.
Bellenrode



Joined: May 02, 2021

Post   Posted: May 15, 2021 - 06:32 Reply with quote Back to top

I heard something interesting in relation to Brawler: that you can re-roll one Both Down result if you have Frenzy, each time.
buuface



Joined: Apr 23, 2014

Post   Posted: May 15, 2021 - 08:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Good for Ulfwerers if true
heling



Joined: Jun 03, 2021

Post   Posted: Jun 03, 2021 - 07:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Osmanthus fragrans tea is a kind of precious flower tea made from exquisite tea billet and fresh osmanthus fragrans.
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