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Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Sep 14, 2021 - 21:36 Reply with quote Back to top

Just tried my first match with Vampires in 2020 rules. Yes, I decided to be stupid and run with 6 vampires for giggles. Yes, using more thralls as edibles thralls is much better.

But....Animal Savagery really is worse than Off For a Bite. It is not munching your own players. That is fine. It is not the fact that your lunch needs to be next to the vampire before moving. That is also ok.

The problem is the 4+ to move if you are not blitzing. Your vampires now have no mobility if the food is not standing next to them to start your turn. You are going to be blitzing with your ball carrier just to get him to move.

Rant over...
Endrophil



Joined: Nov 16, 2015

Post   Posted: Sep 15, 2021 - 07:11 Reply with quote Back to top

You just need another playstyle but yes 4+ is harsh and makes Pro kinda important. Some thing that didnt change is: you have to think if you should/need to move each vampire.
Roohaa



Joined: Jul 21, 2019

Post   Posted: Sep 15, 2021 - 07:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah I play a vamp team in my IRL league and it has been a learning experience. AS can be super risky when you want to just move someone!

Positives: Knocked down, but prone zombies that haven't gone yet can still stand up and take their activation. Instead of leaving the game, it's only losing a tackle zone which is still pretty savage (har).

Negatives, you mentioned already. I think the punishment for a poor AS roll is pretty rough. Many online suggested making the vampire's version into Animal Savagery (+1) so its a 3+ for moves, passes, etc. A slightly more forgiving flavor while still filled with risk and a 1 still causes failure in any case not changing the benefits for blitzes, etc.

Vamp coaches charge on!
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Sep 15, 2021 - 07:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Endrophil wrote:
You just need another playstyle but yes 4+ is harsh and makes Pro kinda important. Some thing that didnt change is: you have to think if you should/need to move each vampire.


I played a bit of vampires in the last edition. 3 was best there also. This edition I think using only one vampire may be the only hope.

Again, the problem is that moving a vampire is now a 4+ roll rather than a 2+. It means every time you move a vampire you better expect it to bite something. If you want to use hypnotic gaze that means you have to pass the 4+ and then have a successful gaze. This really messes up the vampire's best defensive efforts. Ohh, and you can no longer bite a team mate lying on the ground which further reduces your options.

Blitzing and blocking are perhaps better than before since they are still a 2+ roll and failure does not result in being sent off the field.

We may see that a team with only one vampire and moderatly skilled thralls are the best option.

Perhaps
tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 15, 2021 - 08:22 Reply with quote Back to top

I used to start six vamps pretty easy by just not moving most of them for a few turns, start in a defensive pattern that doesn't really need to move and it's fine.

That's far more important in BB20, pick your time, the gazes work now, and there's multiple RRs for the key turn, so keep your powder dry and just go get the ball when it moves itself close enough, needing something like 2+ 2+ 2+ and you get 2d block/strip on a player with no skills.

Plus, if you bite someone and it doesn't break armour, just stand 'em up and position to get bit again.

Imagine it, fighting the thralls, them getting in the way just enough, and these vampires just standing, watching you, waiting for you to try to go past, and then boom!

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Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Sep 15, 2021 - 10:26 Reply with quote Back to top

I've started with 3 vamps, I think 4 might be manageable. Vampire starts have been rough even with the old rules, but one difference is that rookie team matches are fairly winnable now as the new gaze is better and vamps don't disappear.

We just need to manage the negatrait differently

take a look at Strider84's initial run https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&showmatches=1&team_id=1041427
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Sep 15, 2021 - 12:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Java wrote:
I've started with 3 vamps, I think 4 might be manageable. Vampire starts have been rough even with the old rules, but one difference is that rookie team matches are fairly winnable now as the new gaze is better and vamps don't disappear.

We just need to manage the negatrait differently

take a look at Strider84's initial run https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&showmatches=1&team_id=1041427


Nice. I will watch his replay.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 15, 2021 - 13:03 Reply with quote Back to top

You also can no longer Bite prone thralls, they have to be Standing

If you're just Blocking with the player, the roll is a 2+
Does this make Sidestep more important?
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Sep 15, 2021 - 13:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Sp00keh wrote:
You also can no longer Bite prone thralls, they have to be Standing

If you're just Blocking with the player, the roll is a 2+
Does this make Sidestep more important?


It would but TV will be much lower in perpetual leagues. With the abundance of choices available to vamps other skills like block, pro, dodge, guard, and mighty blow or a stat increase would all come before sidestep.
Endrophil



Joined: Nov 16, 2015

Post   Posted: Sep 15, 2021 - 13:38 Reply with quote Back to top

You forget Hypno Gaze is 2+ now. And actually you just move your player to the vampire first instead where you move him.
Endrophil



Joined: Nov 16, 2015

Post   Posted: Sep 15, 2021 - 13:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Lesser improvement would be the ability to to bite knocked down players or deciding wether you want to bite on a failed toll.
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Sep 15, 2021 - 14:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Endrophil wrote:
You forget Hypno Gaze is 2+ now. And actually you just move your player to the vampire first instead where you move him.


Not forgotten. If I am playing against vampires I would at least mark all the thralls. Knock down ones that are already near vampires if I can. Now if you want to move your vampire, you will have to dodge a thrall away in order to give it something to eat. If you cannot mark the thralls put a screen between them and the ball. Every time you want to move the vampire you need to get a thrall to him before you try it. THEN you will eat him quite often because it is a 4+ rather than a 2+ roll.
Endrophil



Joined: Nov 16, 2015

Post   Posted: Sep 15, 2021 - 17:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Or you just Block with your vamps 😀
Tesifonte



Joined: Sep 06, 2004

Post   Posted: Sep 15, 2021 - 17:37 Reply with quote Back to top

They're just not optimal, because of bad mechanics.

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TaChIkOmA! \o/
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Sep 15, 2021 - 18:30 Reply with quote Back to top

I can't fathom how people can say that vamps are manageable now.
Not only you need a STANDING player to munch on.
Not only you move on a 4+.
Not only the 2+ pass 2+ catch play is no longer available.
But you also lose the TZ if you fail. Which is... kinda terrible tbh.

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