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mekutata



Joined: May 03, 2015

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 07:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Happy_Amateur wrote:
sometimes when there is a negative thread you just have to look at who started it and their motivation. Then you apply a basic wikigame formula. For example : Mekutata starts a complaint forum. Mekuta is heavily involved with Goblins. Goblins play with Trolls. Three clicks for a win. Troll!


My C team Der Green Clockwork Klub certainly fields no Trolls. Also, internet trolling has become an overused term. Originally it was describing strangers on the internet attempting to ruin an excited conversation of other strangers, waterboarding the original topic and being joyful about the enragement of strangers.

Currently the "active" part (disco, blogs aor forum) of fumbbl's community feels like a small pot, everyone kinda "knows" everybody. Maybe it will be growing again?

"Recently" I have noticed many attempts of discussions regarding anything BB20 related spiralling into complaint forums. But not by trolls, just coaches who seem really vivid about their dismay.

So my thought was to all have this hate shared in one place. Collected it allows us to see if some of these complaints are trending with huge agreement, or are rather part of different individual "loud" minorites with specific preferences.

It's also part of nature that gits often report more detailed about what they don't like than what they like.
So I hoped by focusing all the negativity into one big thread, allows other discussions to breathe without the constant antibb20 interjections.

I'd even say every other active thread is probably about playing bb20, so in a very basic sense ALL of them are POSITIVE threads about the current ruleset.

What I personally actually like about bb20.

Several RRs per turn!
Allows crazy one of a lifetime turns even with less skilled teams. Also allows you to waste all those valuable RRs in the first turn. And still play 7 more turns. That's gud. Better than chess or gambling.

Also works well with the
Smaller TVs due Re-Draft!
If one of your players has so many gained skills that I can no more skill-tag them on fumbbl it is solvable. If it's several players it becomes annoying. If your whole team consists of legends I am not interested to play and rather do some work in excel. Can't imagine how such games would be playbale in TT!
Also works fluffwise; even if your players didn't suffer "injuries", this is blood bowl. They are hurt from all these blocks and stomps and won't play hundreds of games (ok, Elfz mebe too).

STAT DISPLAY
More intuitive, AV8+ or AG 4+ make more sense to my brain than AV7 or AG2.

Secret Weapons
Having a failed chainsaw or bomb NOT end a turn makes the fight for stunties more exciting.

Trolls can puke!
It's amazing. I wonder if in bb2030 they will be allowed to S**T on downed players.

Nerfed Kick-Off Events
Your opponent having only a couple of players being able to blitz or change position feels less frustrating. Even the worst of em all, when the Ref "beats up" or bans your players is less impaling than the old rocks.

I also feel that some team updates (Norse) are decent, they could have tried the same more bravely with some of the "traditional" teams (Dorfs).
But there is a lot of hit and miss regarding some other (smaller) changes in general, so maybe it's for the better they didn't try with every team too much.

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Last edited by mekutata on Jun 23, 2022 - 16:38; edited 1 time in total
Happy_Amateur



Joined: Jan 14, 2019

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 08:49 Reply with quote Back to top

C team Der Green Clockwork Klub may not field any Trolls, but they certainly are coached by one. If you get my drift.
Storr



Joined: Mar 25, 2020

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 09:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Blah picking blah blah need box blah change is bad blah blah d8
Wozzaa



Joined: Apr 23, 2016

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 09:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Dirty Player + Sneaky Git in the new rules is fun as hell!

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sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 13:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Storr wrote:
Blah picking blah blah need box blah change is bad blah blah d8


I didn't write messages in this topic until now but I can admit I like Blood Bowl as a blah blah game.

It's a sports parody and, as a sports spectator / fan, I like sports for what they are but also for all the blah blah they generate. Wink

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Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 18:47 Reply with quote Back to top

I am a fan of the new rules
    Multiple TRR!
    Chainsaw, and bombs, only place prone!
    Passing stat! (even if passing needs some work)
    Skill System!
    Re-draft! (again not perfect, but improving)
    Team Rules!
    Improved (but not perfect) Kick off and Weather tables!
    Treasury can actually be used as a resource!

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Nuffle wills it.

Lyracian.
Garion26



Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 19:00 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
I'm loving the new edition. The new skill system is so much fun! Also, I was very skeptical about the new reroll rules, but after playing with them for awhile, I think it actually adds strategic depth.


I'm a fan as well.
I've played since the early 1990s on and off.
LRB 6 isn't much like the game I started with. That didn't make LRB 6 bad, it just made it different.

BB2020 is slightly different from LRB 6 (at least on the scale of difference from first second ed BB to LRB6)that doesn't make it bad just different.

I like most of the changes. To highlight a few.
Kick off table less game ruining randomness particularly in changes to things like Blitz. Change away from FAME/fan factor less likely to allow the overdog to have a big advantage on the kick off table,
Passing stats makes an entire positional class (thrower) more valuable then they were and makes the game closer to it's original intent (Throwers actually useful if you want to pass.)
Random skills provides players choice and a risk benefit decision in player development (and what could be more blood bowl appropriate then giving players the option of risk for benefit.)

Previous 'doubles' rule meant the only risk in player development was not getting the double on the player you wanted. A given positional on a given team almost invariably developed the same way unless they rolled a useful stat up or double.

Multiple rerolls gives the player more control of when and where they use their resources and again adds to risk benefit of decision making (yes it makes multiple roll requiring plays more likely, it also makes really bad luck ending a drive less likely. Based on odds it's more likely to help in the I needed to roll two 1/36 rolls to score, the it is to help in the I needed to roll two 1/6s to score)

What I really don't like is the implementation of Wildly inaccurate make it a modified zero or less then zero roll and it would be fine.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 19:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion26 wrote:

Multiple rerolls gives the player more control of when and where they use their resources and again adds to risk benefit of decision making (yes it makes multiple roll requiring plays more likely, it also makes really bad luck ending a drive less likely. Based on odds it's more likely to help in the I needed to roll two 1/36 rolls to score, the it is to help in the I needed to roll two 1/6s to score)

Maybe if you stalled for 8 turns as Elves vs Orcs (who can even have an underpriced Bomber and quite high average MA for a bash team thanks to 4 MA 5 Big Uns) and then they equalized thanks to multiple rr + TTM you would have a different opinion about it.
It happened to me and I was quite pissed off.
Even Kick skill is not a guarantee, because there is High Kick event and because, with Changing Weather, the ball scatters 3 squares, so, if you aimed deep in the opponent's half in order to make the TTM harder a touchback could happen.
So, yes, if you consider that multiple rr helps to average out dice, it's not a bad idea, I agree, but when you think that a team such as Orcs can TTM more easily thanks to it then you could change your mind.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 19:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Maybe the next skill to work on is drawing out the other side's rerolls in the first 7 turns, so they don't get to splurge on turn 8. Vs. Orcs that can be tricky and inconsistent, I admit. Selling a lateral redirect that forces rushes or Animosity handoffs will fool most of the people some of the time, but this whole edition seems to be about the situational and incremental.

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Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice, but instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 19:42 Reply with quote Back to top

I play in a way that forces side switching, yet Orcs, if they really want, can save their rrs for the TTM. Even 2 rrs could suffice, especially if a touchback happens.
I know because I played several games vs Orcs (they are super popular, thanks to BB2020 rules). Moreover, they can have Bomber (he's so cheap that he's basically a hidden rostered player Very Happy ), so it's not as easy as you seem to portray it.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 20:03 Reply with quote Back to top

It's far from automatic, I agree. Orcs had their time on the bottom of the heap, and those days are over. You need some dice at some point, but there are lots of dice that could potentially fill that qualification. Orcs are due their day as a competitive roster, but they're not OP except against their natural prey, and if that's your team, you may just need to do better in other games and sometimes be happy shooting for a tie.

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Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice, but instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 21:38 Reply with quote Back to top

there's an echo

I'm sure I've heard the orc TTM whine before

at least half a dozen times
Lorebass



Joined: Jun 25, 2010

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 21:46
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

Java wrote:
WE CAN BEAT THE CLAWPOMB THREAD

WITH FRIENDSHIP AND POSITIVITY


Lies and Slander
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 21:48 Reply with quote Back to top

that could help too

we have the best slanderers
Garion26



Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 22:28 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:

Maybe if you stalled for 8 turns as Elves vs Orcs (who can even have an underpriced Bomber and quite high average MA for a bash team thanks to 4 MA 5 Big Uns) and then they equalized thanks to multiple rr + TTM you would have a different opinion about it.
It happened to me and I was quite pissed off.
Even Kick skill is not a guarantee, because there is High Kick event and because, with Changing Weather, the ball scatters 3 squares, so, if you aimed deep in the opponent's half in order to make the TTM harder a touchback could happen.
So, yes, if you consider that multiple rr helps to average out dice, it's not a bad idea, I agree, but when you think that a team such as Orcs can TTM more easily thanks to it then you could change your mind.


Matt you are still more likely as the elf coach to be in a situation where you need two 2+ rolls to score and burn a reroll on the first one (and now can finish the scoring sequence with 2020 when you would fail before) then you are to be the victim of pick up ball 3+, hand off ball 3+, really stupid 2+, Eat the goblin 2+, TTM 3+, favorable scatters, landing 3+.
Extra rerolls makes the TTM sequence more likely but several of the rolls are a on a loner, and it's still not as likely as most scoring sequences.

Heck your one turning as an elf coach also gets a boost in the reverse situation. It's still more likely then TTM would be barring agility stat ups , strong arm etc.
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