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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 20:51 Reply with quote Back to top

I think Seasons is like a 15% fix for Bomber. It'll cut down on his usage right at the beginning of the season, and also for lighter teams like Skaven once redraft starts coming close, but it's not going to solve the problem.

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Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice, but instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 28, 2022 - 20:57 Reply with quote Back to top

I suspect that as well, but I never played with Season Re-Draft, I could be wrong.
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 29, 2022 - 11:45 Reply with quote Back to top

SWL has its own re-draft / Agent Fee metric and we have 7 game seasons.

My TT league in Season 1 had 8 games, but we're now at 10 games or so depending on play off progression. Bomber hasnt been prevalent except me with my Underworld team. I find I am cash heavy and am basically restocking dead snotlings. In a season and a half I have not had to replace ANY skaven... I think I have just been lucky.

https://tourplay.net/en/blood-bowl/sydney-tourplay-league-season-2/news
Joost



Joined: Mar 17, 2014

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2022 - 08:59 Reply with quote Back to top

I agree with Matt that the treasury spending makes games more unbalanced, and it's not a development that I like. As Nelphine and others have said it's a feature not a bug, so the lesson I took from the fumbbl cup is too simply embrace it instead of resisting and go for the wizard if you can. I'm curious to see how Seasons will change the dynamix
MerryZ



Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2022 - 09:32 Reply with quote Back to top

But as much as or more than treasyry, games played affect balance. Hope that with seasons we get more penalty to old teams getting paired against new teams (or hope we get protection so new teams dont play against seasoned ones)

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Joost



Joined: Mar 17, 2014

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2022 - 09:58 Reply with quote Back to top

I think that’s actually less of a problem now that star players provide such good value for inducement money. And wasn’t there mechanism in play protecting new teams, form high tv gaps at least? Even if not; the older team is more likely to have a lot of treasury so they are the ones benefiting from the new petty cash system, at the detriment of newer teams right? So I’m not sure how that would mitigate the disbalance created by treasury use.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2022 - 11:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Just a side note: there is not necessarily correlation between games played by a team and Treasury of that team.
Teams suffering many Casualties per game, such as Elves, tend to spend their gold to replace players. Even Linemen are expensive to replace, so it's unlikely that an Elven team has a huge Treasury. I have a 74-game-old HE team with 60k in Treasury, DE 90-game-old with 65k, WE 54-games-old with 100k and EU 113-game-old with 70k.
The problem with this Inducement system is that the most fragile teams can't have the same Treasury as the bash teams, most of times.
If roughly every team had the same Treasury then I could understand it, but some teams, which are already strong, such as Orcs, can have big Treasury, other teams, which struggle in this ruleset, such as Dark Elves, can't have it.
Expensive Mistakes rule fails big at trimming the Treasury.
In my opinion a hard Treasury cap set at 200k would have been better, adjusting the price of Wizard to 200k and Bomber to 100-130k.
Garion26



Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2022 - 12:56 Reply with quote Back to top

The November FAQ is out and it appears to me we are reverting to 2016 / CRP rules for inducement phase meaning the higher team scumming an inducement would add petty cash to the lower TV team. This May address some of your issue Matt. https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/?fbclid=IwAR0czaBJQm5rraiWxow0S1tFauA7UH_uaWFKNnok36irRYVVVCQ0WWlHS9w#blood-bowl
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2022 - 13:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Wait, did they just get rid of all underdog scumming for any reason? Like, you can't even pay full value anymore? Cuz that feels very heavy-handed, if so. But it does kinda solve the Bommer problem.

_________________
Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice, but instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2022 - 13:58 Reply with quote Back to top

@Garion26: awesome news, I hope it will happen! Thanks!
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2022 - 14:07 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
Wait, did they just get rid of all underdog scumming for any reason? Like, you can't even pay full value anymore? Cuz that feels very heavy-handed, if so. But it does kinda solve the Bommer problem.


Also, what happens if both teams are equal TV?
No treasury can be spent, and no inducements for anyone?
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2022 - 14:10 Reply with quote Back to top

I kinda like this
It seemed like the best use of gold was becoming - spend it all on inducements all the time. run with loner linemen, and only replace your positionals
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2022 - 14:25 Reply with quote Back to top

I use Loners only on my Elven teams, because having a bench is hard. On higher AV teams I manage to have a bench.
So, using Loner Linemen on an Elven team is a necessity, rather than a plan.
The side-effect of this is that, if a Loner gets the MVP, I can randomize the skill light-hearted and fire him if I don't like it, while, if I had 11 rostered players, I would waste 70k doing so.
Also, without a bench, with just 11 players, there is a higher chance to get the random MVP on a positional, which is better than wasting it on a Lineman.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2022 - 16:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Actually, it appears the FAQ replaces Petty Cash and Treasury sub-sections within section 4 inducements

But it doesn’t replace the whole of section 4 inducements
So, the paragraph there still stands, which allows both teams to spend from treasury and/or petty cash
The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2022 - 21:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Thrown stunties no longer cause a Turnover when landing on the enemy. GREAT update!

However, this is a poorly written Inducement change, imo. If this was simply a change to the PETTY CASH section, and how it was calculated, it would be fine. There would be no need to title this errata change as "Petty Cash AND Treasury", but they did. That 'Treasury' section is the official place in the rules for stating that Treasury can be added to Petty Cash. The errata replaces that section.

So despite it saying in the Inducements preamble on page 38, "..each team can spend gold pieces from their treasury..",

and again in a descriptive box on page 89, "..coaches may purchase inducements.. taken from their Treasury..",

the actual section that says the underdog can spend treasury has been intentionally altered.

So my personal take on it is that the underdog now gets Petty Cash only, and would have to wait and see what the overdog spends to spend the Petty Cash.

I'd be OK with that, especially if a Table Top opponent had to tell you how much he spent AND what he spent it on.

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Last edited by The_Murker on Nov 30, 2022 - 21:30; edited 1 time in total
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