Garion26
Joined: Nov 28, 2021
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 Posted:
Jan 27, 2023 - 21:22 |
 
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Re OWA dwarf blockers
| Garion wrote: |
me too. It's their cost and lack of block that puts them on the list. |
I understand your point but while brawler/arm bar/thick skull aren't great skills they aren't too bad for 20K more then a human lineman with +1 AV/-2 movement likely offsetting given their role on the team.
I just think they look over priced because true Dwarf blockers are under costed for all they bring to the table |
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Malmir
Joined: May 20, 2008
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Jan 27, 2023 - 21:39 |
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| Nelphine wrote: | | for me, i listed fun hopper as the worst positional on the team. for me it seems clear cut - hopping instead of 2+ dodging with a built in re-roll is a niche skill. but i can understand they may not be so bad that you shouldn't take 2 of them, and would certainly defer to your experience on whether they are actually bad or merely less good |
they are a 3 to dodge which is why the 3 to leap if you have a rr and make less rolls overall is viable |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Jan 27, 2023 - 21:39 |
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i also think that the success of OWA shows that dwarf blockers could probably get arm bar and lose tackle, and still be a successful team. i'm HOPING that's why GW did it - as an experiment to see if they could change the dwarf roster which has been stagnant for a very long time, without unduly harming the dwarf team as a whole. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Jan 27, 2023 - 21:40 |
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| Malmir wrote: | | Nelphine wrote: | | for me, i listed fun hopper as the worst positional on the team. for me it seems clear cut - hopping instead of 2+ dodging with a built in re-roll is a niche skill. but i can understand they may not be so bad that you shouldn't take 2 of them, and would certainly defer to your experience on whether they are actually bad or merely less good |
they are a 3 to dodge which is why the 3 to leap if you have a rr and make less rolls overall is viable |
right but they're replacing a snotling who dodges on a 2+. so i just.. don't see it as that great. but, i'm definitely not an expert with them. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jan 27, 2023 - 21:46 |
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| Nelphine wrote: | | i also think that the success of OWA shows that dwarf blockers could probably get arm bar and lose tackle, and still be a successful team. i'm HOPING that's why GW did it - as an experiment to see if they could change the dwarf roster which has been stagnant for a very long time, without unduly harming the dwarf team as a whole. |
That, or even just removing Tackle from Dwarf and Chaos Dwarf Blockers and pricing them 60k.
Swapping Tackle with Arm Bar sounds a nice alternative idea. Anything, but no Tackle spam.
That would require to change Amazon roster too, in my opinion (removing the Dodge spam and replacing it with Wrestle or something else), otherwise Amazons could be too good.
About the Fun Hopper: in some situations a 3+ Leap is better than a 2+ dodge with Dodge, if you have a rr.
For example, if marked by a Diving Tackle player, the 3+ Leap with rr is better than the 4+ dodge with Dodge.
Niche situation, I know. |
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amazingprizzini
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
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Jan 27, 2023 - 23:04 |
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OWA alliance dwarfs aren't terrible, they are just bad compared to regular dwarf blockers, who have always been a bit OP.
I think they are worthwhile taking, for line fodder if nothing else with their 10+ armor.
They're not renegage throwers bad or anything, or the OWA drawf runner. |
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Malmir
Joined: May 20, 2008
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Jan 28, 2023 - 10:48 |
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| Nelphine wrote: | | Malmir wrote: | | Nelphine wrote: | | for me, i listed fun hopper as the worst positional on the team. for me it seems clear cut - hopping instead of 2+ dodging with a built in re-roll is a niche skill. but i can understand they may not be so bad that you shouldn't take 2 of them, and would certainly defer to your experience on whether they are actually bad or merely less good |
they are a 3 to dodge which is why the 3 to leap if you have a rr and make less rolls overall is viable |
right but they're replacing a snotling who dodges on a 2+. so i just.. don't see it as that great. but, i'm definitely not an expert with them. |
Which I get seems to make sense, however all the snotlings have titchy, so unless you have the positionals who don't, then dodging into your ball carrier becomes an open door. |
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Jayward
Joined: Dec 22, 2020
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Jan 28, 2023 - 11:26 |
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I especially dislike the Imperial Thrower. I'd argue that it's the only positional on that list with a skill that will never come into play, as Running Pass is just abysmal.
I'd take any other thrower on that list in Nobility, I think. Orc is the only maybe, but even then at least it's cheaper and has Sure Hands |
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C0ddlefish
Joined: Sep 17, 2019
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Jan 28, 2023 - 11:37 |
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The the thing is the Nobility thrower at least offers Av+ and Ag+ compared to the linemen. So there's potentially a benefit.
The Renegade Throwers only advantage over a Lineman is P Access (effectively Leader), Pass (with noone to really Thrower to (plus Animosity) and SPOF when you have 2 better ball carrier options (arguably 3 if you include the Gobbo) |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jan 28, 2023 - 12:01 |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jan 28, 2023 - 12:05 |
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Yes, I meant: currently their Dodge spam is countered by Dwarfs' and Chaos Dwarfs' Tackle spam.
Without Tackle on Dwarfs and Chaos Dwarfs the Amazon roster should be changed, because they would be even better than now.
As an aside, I guess that some Amazon data come from legacy rosters with the 4 Block Blitzers. The new Amazon roster is a bit worse than the old one. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jan 28, 2023 - 12:31 |
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yeah it's a mix currently of old and new data. I dont think it's worse tbh. Its just different, st4 dodge defence is a nightmare. but in terms of winning they have Ma7 now which is HUGE.
they are totally broken. but that's for another thread really. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Jan 28, 2023 - 12:39 |
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MA 7 and ST 4 Defensive are nice indeed, but on the other hand they lost 2 players with S access. That means fewer Guards, MBs and Blodge out of the box. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jan 28, 2023 - 12:51 |
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yes I'm fully aware of the changes. They're still busted, and this rule set is meant to be played at lower TV. Once seasons come in which is integral to the rules they'll be even more broken and their win ratio is already off the chart good. But zon complaints is for another thread really. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 28, 2023 - 12:55 |
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I agree with you. Most of games take place at low TV and that helps Amazons. Most teams lack the skills to deal with them. |
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