pizzamogul
Joined: Jun 13, 2005
|
 Posted:
Apr 20, 2011 - 21:24 |
 
|
This thread has devolved into arguing about the Monty Hall Paradox?
Any admin that locks this is getting removed from my Christmas Newsletter mailing list.
Shadow, you've been warned! |
_________________
"Don't expect mercy."
-Woodstock |
|
gjopie
Joined: Oct 27, 2009
|
| Posted:
Apr 20, 2011 - 21:31 |
|
I can't believe the admins have let this run on so long! They aren't oppressive enough! Get rid of them all! |
_________________
  |
|
licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
|
| Posted:
Apr 20, 2011 - 21:33 |
|
| pizzamogul wrote: | This thread has devolved into arguing about the Monty Hall Paradox?
|
Hmmmm...
Well it's hardly a paradox.
This is a paradox...
| Quote: | | Achilles is in a footrace with the tortoise. Achilles allows the tortoise a head start of 100 metres. If we suppose that each racer starts running at some constant speed (one very fast and one very slow), then after some finite time, Achilles will have run 100 metres, bringing him to the tortoise's starting point. During this time, the tortoise has run a much shorter distance, say, 10 metres. It will then take Achilles some further time to run that distance, by which time the tortoise will have advanced farther; and then more time still to reach this third point, while the tortoise moves ahead. Thus, whenever Achilles reaches somewhere the tortoise has been, he still has farther to go. Therefore, because there are an infinite number of points Achilles must reach where the tortoise has already been, he can never overtake the tortoise. |
|
|
|
DragonsMaw
Joined: Oct 08, 2005
|
| Posted:
Apr 20, 2011 - 21:39 |
|
I think that last one isn't a paradox either... Just wrong  ... |
_________________
I've lost myself and gone to find me, if I get back before I get here, please ask me to wait. |
|
licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
|
| Posted:
Apr 20, 2011 - 21:41 |
|
Of course it's 'wrong' that's why it's a paradox, if you can't actually explain why it's wrong 
But it is considered to be one of the classic Zeno's paradoxes.
I suppose for now true paradoxes are relegated to the philosophical or quantum world. |
|
|
DragonsMaw
Joined: Oct 08, 2005
|
| Posted:
Apr 20, 2011 - 21:43 |
|
It's wrong because math says, if one body is going faster than the other, it will eventually overtake the other body ... Now... I don't do math, so I suppose I'm wrong, but I do words, and it isn't a paradox... *shrug* |
_________________
I've lost myself and gone to find me, if I get back before I get here, please ask me to wait. |
|
Timlagor
Joined: Feb 13, 2009
|
| Posted:
Apr 20, 2011 - 21:47 |
|
It's flawed because it fails to treat infinity properly but it is most definitely a paradox because it [s]is[/s] appears to follow logically from correct premises while reaching the (demonstrably) false conclusion. |
Last edited by Timlagor on %b %20, %2011 - %21:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
|
Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
|
| Posted:
Apr 20, 2011 - 21:50 |
|
It is most definitely NOT a paradox, also the admin who is most like to lock threads for silly digression is not Shadow. |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
|
PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
|
| licker wrote: | | pizzamogul wrote: | This thread has devolved into arguing about the Monty Hall Paradox?
|
Hmmmm...
Well it's hardly a paradox.
This is a paradox...
| Quote: | | Achilles is in a footrace with the tortoise. Achilles allows the tortoise a head start of 100 metres. If we suppose that each racer starts running at some constant speed (one very fast and one very slow), then after some finite time, Achilles will have run 100 metres, bringing him to the tortoise's starting point. During this time, the tortoise has run a much shorter distance, say, 10 metres. It will then take Achilles some further time to run that distance, by which time the tortoise will have advanced farther; and then more time still to reach this third point, while the tortoise moves ahead. Thus, whenever Achilles reaches somewhere the tortoise has been, he still has farther to go. Therefore, because there are an infinite number of points Achilles must reach where the tortoise has already been, he can never overtake the tortoise. |
|
Why the Monty Hall paradox works with knowledge and doesnt without:
The host knows where the ball is.
Each cup has a 33% chance of the ball.
The cup the host shows you has 0% chance of the ball.
The 33% attatched to that cup therefore attatches to the hosts other cup. making it 66% likely have the ball, and yours 33% likely.
The host doesnt know where the ball is:
Each cup has a 33% to have the ball.
The cup the host shows you had a 33% chance to end the game.
That 33% is used up in beating the odds of ending the game.
This leaves just 33% for each of the 2 remaining cups, translating to 50% each.
The achilles 'paradox' is a simple error of statement. If Achilles is in a footrace it is not his intention to catch up to the tortoise but to complete the race. The instance given assumes (without stating) that he is constantly slowing down with the goal of reaching the tortoise. If the assumption is that the tortoise is in perpetual motion it ceases to be 'reachable' and instead becomes only matchable in velocity and direction. This is the concept being played with using deliberately innacurate language. |
_________________
Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
|
Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
|
| Posted:
Apr 20, 2011 - 21:54 |
|
par·a·dox
/ˈpærəˌdɒks/ Show Spelled[par-uh-doks]
-noun
1. a statement or proposition that seems self-contradictory or absurd but in reality expresses a possible truth.
Nope, does not express a truth, possible or otherwise.
2. a self-contradictory and false proposition.
Not so much self-contradictory, but it is false, this might be your best bet.
3. any person, thing, or situation exhibiting an apparently contradictory nature.
The definition I'm familiar with. It is possible for someone to be a hard worker and a procrastinator, but it doesn't seem like that should be possible.
4. an opinion or statement contrary to commonly accepted opinion.
Not sure what drugs this dictionary writer was on, but this makes everything Pythrr has ever said a paradox.... |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
|
licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
|
| Posted:
Apr 20, 2011 - 21:55 |
|
lol...
Who hacked my post?  [nevermind...]
And got their explaination for MH wrong anyway... you don't 'use up' odds. The only way to change them is to reshuffle after the reveal. The host pulling an empty randomly or intentionally makes no difference.
And got the explaination for Achilles wrong to boot! But had an interesting take on the problem. |
|
|
pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
|
| Posted:
Apr 20, 2011 - 21:58 |
|
| f_alk wrote: | | pythrr wrote: | | Dude, sorry to break it to you, but this is not a democracy. |
Of course it is not - but in autocratic regimes smart dictators also listen to their people if they want their lands to grow and blossom.
[ |
They also hang, draw and quarter them when they go on and on and on whining about stuff even when the dictators has told them to shut it. Can we go there? Please? |
|
|
PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
|
| Posted:
Apr 20, 2011 - 22:00 |
|
So is the OP going to retire his box human teams and go over to ranked were he can play and not have to beat his head against the box wall every time a "basher" type game is scheduled? |
_________________
Comish of the:  |
|
Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
|
| Posted:
Apr 20, 2011 - 22:09 |
|
Licker, the Achilles (weird name choice) thing is simply nonsense, not a paradox.
Painstate, no talking about the OP! you're too late!  |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
|
pizzamogul
Joined: Jun 13, 2005
|
| Posted:
Apr 20, 2011 - 22:19 |
|
Sorry. I should have said Monty Hall Problem. Although, isn't the M.H.P. a veridical paradox? |
_________________
"Don't expect mercy."
-Woodstock |
|
|
|
| |
Gnome Roster - how a...
Search
