| Poll |
| Is the Blackbox welcome message misleading? |
| Yes, and I play mostly box. |
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43% |
[ 35 ] |
| No, and I play mostly box. |
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7% |
[ 6 ] |
| Yes, and I play mostly other divisions. |
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28% |
[ 23 ] |
| No, and I play mostly other divisions. |
|
13% |
[ 11 ] |
| Unsure |
|
7% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 81 |
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tussock
Joined: May 29, 2011
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 Posted:
Nov 11, 2015 - 10:26 |
 
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Ooh, are we doing this?
Ranked: Where you can increase your ranking by beating up noobs all day long.
Blackbox: Where life is like a box of chocolates, if half of them had CPOMB.
League: Where you get one game a week, if you're lucky enough that your opponent shows up.
Stunty Leeg: Do you really like mismatches? Because there isn't anything else here.
Cyanide: Maybe the other coach will let you score before they concede, but probably not.
Tabletop: Good luck finding another human being in reach that wants to play Blood Bowl. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 11, 2015 - 11:39 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | koadah wrote: | | harvestmouse wrote: |
I agree with Balle regarding 145. New coaches really need more catering. 145 isn't official that's the problem, but it's pretty close to it now. I don't think anybody has a bad thing to say about the league, it's nigh on perfect. |
Really, open leagues need improving. I don't know if that is coming or not with the league upgrades.
Currently leagues are limited to 40 teams. For a small league that is fine but for a bigger league it means that each coach may only enter one team which restricts the number of matches available. So, Ranked is still pretty useful for finding matches. |
Well you are most definitely the king of the open format league. I also think in a lot of cases this is the way to go. So, if you have ideas I'd jot them down and forward them straight to Christer. |
Christer has already been at work. We previously only had 26 and the tournament page ground to a halt if you added more than two leagues.  |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 11, 2015 - 12:03 |
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| easilyamused wrote: | | Do not start the whole R vs B debate again please Bill. |
No, let's not, but it's a valid point to say that Box is not particularly harsh to newcomers, as opposed to Ranked, at least not since the scheduler change.
I like Uedder's wording. I also think it would be a good idea to update the help section for Blackbox (it still seems to be explaining the old scheduler). The 15 matches and 30 matches threshold should be explained concisely and at a place where newcomers can easily find it. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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| Verminardo wrote: | | I also think it would be a good idea to update the help section for Blackbox (it still seems to be explaining the old scheduler). The 15 matches and 30 matches threshold should be explained concisely and at a place where newcomers can easily find it. |
Well to take on what I like to call the 'harvestmouse' role, all Wiki entries are editable by anyone. If you think something is wrong then you can change it!
(Yes, this is an attempt to guilt you into doing it. It worked when he did it to me, so now I'm using it on others  ) |
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Christer
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| koadah wrote: | | OK. Maybe cut the 'new to Fumbbl' but leave in the 'new to blood bowl' |
This change makes sense.
To me, the basic content of the current text makes sense. The blackbox is, and will always be, a division that's bash heavy. Having the short descriptive message imply that is not at all misleading, nor is it a push into that direction from the site. Stating that it's a division full of rainbows and cute kittens would perhaps get people to pick more agile teams, but it would essentially be misleading.
Is it really that strange that the descriptive text for the division states the inevitable fact that it's bash-heavy?
My suggestion for an updated text focuses on the second paragraph. Removing the "new to FUMBBL" makes sense, and I would also reword the sentence slightly if I did that. That'd leave something like this:
| Quote: | The Blackbox division is a highly competitive, cut-throat division where coaches are not able to choose who they play against. The toughest, roughest teams compete for glory in this division and there is no mercy for the weak!
This division is not recommended for newcomers to Blood Bowl. |
The only change is the toning down of the last sentence, removing a reference to the site and also removing a fair bit of the emphasis on the sentence as a whole. |
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mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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I quite like that change. It'd be nice to mention things like the rookie protection window, and maybe even things like ARR and the HLP but they maybe wouldn't work as part of the main welcome.
It anything, I still think that the opening paragraph probably has a little too much focus on beatings. 'Highly competitive, cut-throat, toughest, roughest, no mercy' are all saying a similar sort of thing. My experience is that this isn't really the case now, for the first 15 games at least. This may sound like a small mercy, 15 games, but I think for new coaches those first few games in Box can often be a better place to learn than Ranked. |
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"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude
Mr. J's LRB7 / Forum |
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awambawamb
Joined: Feb 17, 2008
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| Posted:
Nov 11, 2015 - 15:26 |
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| Quote: | The Blackbox division is a highly competitive, cut-throat division where coaches are not able to choose who they play against. The toughest, roughest teams compete for glory in this division and there is no mercy for the weak!
This division is not recommended for newcomers to Blood Bowl. |
+1 with Christer! |
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"la virtù sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Nov 11, 2015 - 15:35 |
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| Quote: | | The Blackbox division is a highly competitive, cut-throat division where coaches are not able to choose who they play against. The toughest, roughest teams compete for glory in this division and there is no mercy for the weak! |
Maybe it's the language barrier but I can't understand how anyone that doesn't want the box to die can be happy with that description. |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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| Posted:
Nov 11, 2015 - 15:38 |
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Yeah since the mm change eliminating minmax predators the first games in box aren't all that bashy. Because the best bashers in the game don't even have block. Black box is very bash driven at mid-high tv, but very much enjoyable early on. Anyway if black box is meant for bash so be it. It's only fair to describe it as such. The only question is: is ranked a better place for newcomers? I don't know. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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| Posted:
Nov 11, 2015 - 15:57 |
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Semantics might be the issue here I mean, for the sake of it (and not slighting either division) - highly competitive? In theory, no more so than ranked, unless people are allowed to throw games there (they're not). Cut-throat? Again, no more so than ranked, but in different ways - you can do everything you can in box in ranked and more, you've just no guarantee of a game. The bashy nature is driven by the ruleset(s) (both current and past) of blood bowl and mechanics of ranked, it's not actually an inherent mechanism of the box.
Incidentally, given the volume of people who're currently literally running a team for 15 games before restarting to avoid playing high tv bashers, you could argue that the only part of the box that is defining is the randomised match-making. |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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| Posted:
Nov 11, 2015 - 16:05 |
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| Christer wrote: |
My suggestion for an updated text focuses on the second paragraph. Removing the "new to FUMBBL" makes sense, and I would also reword the sentence slightly if I did that. That'd leave something like this:
| Quote: | The Blackbox division is a highly competitive, cut-throat division where coaches are not able to choose who they play against. The toughest, roughest teams compete for glory in this division and there is no mercy for the weak!
This division is not recommended for newcomers to Blood Bowl. |
The only change is the toning down of the last sentence, removing a reference to the site and also removing a fair bit of the emphasis on the sentence as a whole. |
I would remove that part altogether. The average CR is definitely higher in the Box, there are some nasty minmaxers as well, but at least there are no cherry pickers (no B vs R debate intended). When you arrive on FUMBBL and make a new R team, all the pickers are gonna jump on you and you're likely to lose most of your games till you understand dorfs ain't a good matchup for your zons, or that super stars playing exclusively against veterans should be avoided.
My point is... B isn't harder than R for the newcomer. Less friendly on average, possibly. But harder, nope.
I'm insisting on that because that very sentence is the reason I didn't join the B sooner (then it was because my favourite team was a R team but that's another story), and it's a shame, really. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Nov 11, 2015 - 19:48 |
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I think removing the 'new to FUMBBL' is a good idea. How about something positive too, along the MattDakka line of thought.
The Blackbox division is a highly competitive division, where no punches are pulled and no opponent is refused. A division were coaches are not able to choose who they play against. The toughest, roughest and meanest teams compete for glory in a division where there is no mercy for the weak, but the rewards are high!
Are you ready to take on any team that activates? This division is not recommended for newcomers to Blood Bowl. |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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| Posted:
Nov 11, 2015 - 22:52 |
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Generally for this thread, and I mean no offence whatsoever, I think those who are not actively playing in box right now (especially thinking about harvestmouse and koadah - who i both have much respect for, i might add), should stop and consider the accuracy and validity of their opinions on the current state of blackbox.
There are several coaches in this thread who recently were new to FUMBBL - or BB all together - who are very clear and articulated about the misleading nature of the blackbox intro message.
You have to let yourself be guided by these coaches, because they are the one who's in "the field" on this matter.
Btw 75% of all voters in this poll (disregarding unsure) agrees that the intro msg does not match the reality of the box. That's high numbers.
TEAMS
If you talk about tough and rough teams, you also have to talk about all the teams who willingly and purposefully go against the cpomb fashion. the 200k+ vampire, elf, human teams for example, and the wonderful ARR initiative.
IDEA
Add a to the description that its a division where it starts out softly, but gets harder the more you play. Or something to this effect. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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| Posted:
Nov 12, 2015 - 00:51 |
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Well I don't think it does start out softly. It still has more 'team building' than the other divisions, and this is what is difficult for new players. Whether that's to avoid the danger areas, maintain a sweet spotted TV or to keep the TV deliberately low is down to interpretation and team. However this division has the most extreme and therefore the most difficult to get to grasps with.
Time and time again you see a new player say something like "Why did I have to play a such and such experienced player/team?" It's in one of the other current threads.
You also have to ask yourself why wouldn't Koadah and mouse player there? For me, I find myself agreeing more and more with Matt Dakka. It is the true format and the best way to match games. However not how it is and nor is it suited to newer players in my opinion. For those that have some experience, well choice is freedom. That's my 2 cents. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 12, 2015 - 01:10 |
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Gnomes are trash
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