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D_Arquebus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2016 - 09:47 Reply with quote Back to top
My point, is that the Dwarves are paying 250k for the ability to be as strong as an Orc team.

Similarly advanced Orcs have Block and the other skills (maybe no Thick Skull and some less Tackle) but are cheaper for it. Alternatively, if they are the same TV then the Orcs are probably carrying more skills.

Yes they have a bunch of postioning skills etc, but Orcs with the same SPPs will have as many. Cause they come built with better Stats.

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Tomay



Joined: Apr 26, 2008
Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2016 - 09:56 Reply with quote Back to top
Difference is that a BOB takes 2 very hard to obtain skill ups to get block and tackle (and then doesn't have thick skull) while the dorf gets the +str in one. This is essentially what makes Norse a good race too. Then let's not get into +str slayers who are just absurd.

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Semitence



Joined: May 18, 2013
Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2016 - 10:38 Reply with quote Back to top
I would argue that +ST is harder to obtain than two skills on a BOB.
D_Arquebus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2016 - 10:44 Reply with quote Back to top
But, when you are playing the 4x Skill BOBs and Orcs you don't really care how long it took them to get there do you? Only that they are monsters you have to somehow overcome.

In a long term league like SWL, the TV efficiency seems to out way the time to arrive.

I suppose my point is that Stat Freaks like the Dwarves are replicating something that the Orcs can do anyway. Real freaks are Elves who can 2+ into a cage and 2D the ball carrier, and then 2+ the ball up and out of the cage as well. Or 2+ ball handling with Orcs OR Dwarves for that matter with speed >6 Razz

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DrDiscoStu



Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2016 - 11:42 Reply with quote Back to top
Comparing longbeards to bobs is comparing linemen to positionals.

I think you are all undervaluing "skill combinations". Stand firm is a poor skill, combined with guard it is great. Diving tackle is alright, combined with tackle it is much better. Combined with stand firm it is amazing. (And don't forget block!). Mighty blow is much better with block and again better with tackle.

So having your linemen start with block and tackle is what makes dorfs great. And onto their positionals...

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Last edited by DrDiscoStu on %b %01, %2016 - %11:%Jun; edited 1 time in total
Faulcon



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2016 - 11:49 Reply with quote Back to top
DrDiscoStu wrote:
So having your linemen start with block and tackle is what makes orcs great. And onto their positionals...


Freudian slip there stu?
DrDiscoStu



Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2016 - 11:59 Reply with quote Back to top
Damn thought I caught it before anyone noticed

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tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011
Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2016 - 12:23 Reply with quote Back to top
Quote:
My point, is that the Dwarves are paying 250k for the ability to be as strong as an Orc team.


Hmm.

ST 4 Dorf blocker: 120k. 4429, Block, Tackle, Thick Skull. 6spp.
Block and Tackle BoB: 120k. 4429, Block, Tackle. 16spp.

At the same TV, Orcs will have less tackle and other better skills instead, but it's still the same basic player. If Dwarfs pay to much for Tackle spam, they get Thick Skull basically for free after the +ST upgrade to make up for it.

So it's not costing the dwarves money. They're cheaper than the Orc version, and are also easier to skill further. Core ST 4 players pay 60k for having it over the same stat line as ST 3, and +ST only costs 50k. It's cheaper to get your ST 4 team that way, if you luck into it.

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lolvenom



Joined: Jan 27, 2007
Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2016 - 13:06 Reply with quote Back to top
lolvenom wrote:
Did I also read it right in so much as that there won't be a ToB during the Cup, that it's for regular league teams only? The Trial will only take place during the semi's ready for the next season?


Are the admins able to confirm or deny this interpretation please?
D_Arquebus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2016 - 13:37 Reply with quote Back to top
They also lose Speed over the whole team.

Look it is obviously a benefit to Dwarves to be able to play like Orcs. They normally cant and rely on Guard to get it done.

But the 5x ST for doesn't make them world beaters who will Annihilate other teams. And Orcs are Top Tier Wink Razz

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RedMaul



Joined: Jun 10, 2006
Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2016 - 14:09 Reply with quote Back to top
I'd gladly trade the 3 +ST Lino's for +MA and +AG on my positionals, because when it comes down to it, you're blocking with dice that can bring you undone, but you're making movement like a straight cowboy on a 0+ dice roll.

Strength we can make up for with Guard. Somewhat. Movement and Agility is what really makes a broken dwarf team. Dwarves aren't supposed to be able to counter breaks in their line. That's freaking easymode dot tee emm.
Tomay



Joined: Apr 26, 2008
Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2016 - 14:38 Reply with quote Back to top
lolvenom wrote:
lolvenom wrote:
Did I also read it right in so much as that there won't be a ToB during the Cup, that it's for regular league teams only? The Trial will only take place during the semi's ready for the next season?


Are the admins able to confirm or deny this interpretation please?


Don't know where you're getting that from. Trial of Blood will be run as usual.

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DrDiscoStu



Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2016 - 14:53 Reply with quote Back to top
RedMaul wrote:
I'd gladly trade the 3 +ST Lino's for +MA and +AG on my positionals, because when it comes down to it, you're blocking with dice that can bring you undone, but you're making movement like a straight cowboy on a 0+ dice roll.

Strength we can make up for with Guard. Somewhat. Movement and Agility is what really makes a broken dwarf team. Dwarves aren't supposed to be able to counter breaks in their line. That's freaking easymode dot tee emm.


I spoke to Nuffle and he has agreed to your terms. He said fire the linemen now and the next rolls will be what you seek.

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D_Arquebus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2016 - 15:31 Reply with quote Back to top
Mighty Gentlemanly of you Stu... asking for a mate like that... Razz

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Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Post   Posted: Jun 01, 2016 - 15:41 Reply with quote Back to top
I just going to suggest that pretty much any high TV tier 1 or 2 race is going to be awesome with 5+ST players. Not just Dwarves in particular.

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