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ramchop



Joined: Oct 12, 2013

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 03:44 Reply with quote Back to top

EDIT: This post is no longer being updated. There is a new an improved bug reporting system HERE

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The List of bugs is very long. What I'm hoping for here, is to summarise the big in game ones.
Most importantly what are the game breakers? Then bugs which can be fixed by players while in game to prevent client breaking CRP rules. Input in the thread below greatly appreciated.

Game Breakers - if you don't avoid them the game crashes, and may not be recovered.

2) Pass Block and Hypnotic Gaze If a player with both skills attempts a Pass Block action and falls prone in a non-legal pass block destination square, it is impossible to complete the action and so the game cannot proceed (and is unrecoverable). Only realistically affects Eldril Sidewinder.
Fix - Be very careful when using Pass Block with Eldril. Don't fail!

3) Pass Block and Tentacles. Similar to above. If tentacles prevents you from getting your Pass Block player to a valid square for blocking the pass, the client will crash.
Fix - Do not attempt to use Pass Block to move a player away from tentacles (unless he's already in a square that he can intercept from)

4) Spiked Ball with Dump-Off. If you stab someone with the ball on the moving team when using a Dump-Off pass, it ends their team turn before the blitz is resolved and prevents any further actions in the game.
Fix - Don't Dump Off with a spiked ball. Or if you do, try not to hit the opposition.

5) Missing players during setup. If you move several players to the same square during a kick off event, like Perfect Defense, Quick Snap, or High Kick - players will vanish and there is no solution. You won't be able to end setup, and the game is broken.
Fix - Be careful during these kick off events. Don't move players around too quickly when setting up. (note: a similar entry in "Annoyances" which does have a fix)

6) Pass Block and Pass to an Empty Square. If you move your pass blocker to the landing square the game will freeze.
Fix - Be careful with Pass Block


CRP Breakers - FUMBBL hasn't got the rules quite right, but you can fix it!

1) Catching from a Blitz kick off result. The kicking team gets a 'Blitz' result. A player runs under the ball. Ends turn. The Catch is failed. Client allows a Team Reroll. CRP rules state Team Rerolls can't be used for this.
Fix: Don't use the team reroll for the catch.

2) Dodging from a Diving Tackler. Dodge skill Reroll works. Then after Diving Tackle is used, the now failed dodge is offered a Team Reroll. CRP rules state you can't reroll a failed action twice
Fix: Don't use the Team Reroll (I don't think I've described this well, and there are other similar instances which this needs to cover)

3) Secret Weapons in Overtime. Secret Weapons are not correctly removed from play when banned at the end of the second half, if there is overtime.
Fix: One should not use secret weapons in overtime if they should have been banned. i.e. don't set them up, or set them up away from the action and don't use them.

4) The 2nd Bomb. Bombardier: when a thrown bomb explodes, and the result is the ball stops in the square of a player who was not already carrying the ball before the bomb action (such as at kickoff if the ball has not landed, or if it scattered from the ball carrier and was caught), then that player gets another bomb to throw. This second bomb should not exist.
Fix - Quick pass into clear space. Up to the thrower what this means.

5) Blitz! kickoff - blitzing a player under the ball. It gives the option to Dump Off if the player under it is blitzed and has that skill (even though the ball is still above him). It will also scatter immediately if the player under it is placed prone (by Wrestling or Piling On) and that will end the team turn if the blitzing player does so.
Fix - Do not Dump Off during a Blitz! kickoff, and avoid going prone under the ball in the air.


Annoyances - sh*t happens

1) Blitz action: if you click the target of your Blitz after using a re-roll on a Dodge or GFI to get next to them, but do so too quickly before your client has fully synchronised with the sever about the re-roll result, your block from the blitz action can be lost. This can be recovered if you are able to move more squares, and sometimes is recovered if the client is reloaded.

2) Throw Team-Mate: if a thrown Right Stuff player without the ball lands on or scatters to an empty square with the ball in it, including a ball that scattered from a knocked-down ball carrier, the client ends their team turn incorrectly.

3) Ball & Chain: If a No Hands B&C pushes a prone player onto an empty square with the ball in it, this ends the team turn as if the B&C had moved onto the ball.

4) Animosity: rarely, a failed Animosity roll will end the team turn. The game shows an "end move" option first. Throwing or handing off to a valid target, or reloading the client, may clear the bug.

5) Blood Lust (possibly only with Hypnotic Gaze) rarely, a failed Blood Lust roll will end the team turn. The game shows an "end move" option first, after feeding. Trying to move the player at this point (which does nothing), or reloading the client, may clear the bug.

6) Safe Throw if safe throw prevents a fumble based on negative modifiers (not a natural 1) then the thrower holds onto the ball (correct) but it still counts as a turnover (incorrect).
Workaround - none - just be aware that you will incur a turnover if your thrower holds onto the ball instead of fumbling the pass.

7) Missing players during setup. If you are setting up your men for kickoff, sometimes you can click too quickly and a player will land on another, and one of them disappears.
Fix - You can resolve this by Saving the Setup, Moving a player, and Loading the Setup. The missing player appears in reserves, and you can set up normally.

8 ) Quick Snap - whole turn missed entirely. This is a fun one - the receiving coach gets a Quick Snap kick off result, and once done with moving his players, he clicks on End Setup twice quickly. The client interprets the second click of the End Setup as "End Turn" and immediately ends the receiving coach's turn. Workaround: Click only once.
Fair Play option: Defender ought to skip his turn as well, in fairness. This is not always a great option, but often can be reasonable.

9) Pro: The client does not support re-rolling a failed Pro roll with a team re-roll. CRP explicitly allows you to re-roll the Pro roll, but not the original roll, after choosing to use Pro.

10) Server crash: In case the FFB server crashes, ongoing matches get rolled back to beginning of turn. Because we don't have a way to replicate results in FFB, and coaches don't have a way to force a crash - admin current response on this is:
"Any partial turn that was played did not happen. Coaches should continue the match from the point where it got reloaded by the client. You don't have to try to replicate what happened before."
Not a happy thing to have to rule on, but it's all we have.

Fix - One note on this - if you are planning to disconnect and finish the rest of a game at a later time... Kick the ball off first. Get to the Beginning of a Turn. Then disconnect and let the game be saved at a good point.

11) Spiked Ball In case of multiple failed catch attempts the Spiked ball only stabs the last player failing the catch. It should stab everyone

12) No fouling on a Blitz! I guess this is a CRP breaker, but you can't fix it, so it's an annoyance


Last edited by ramchop on Apr 15, 2017 - 22:27; edited 22 times in total
ramchop



Joined: Oct 12, 2013

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 03:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Got to admit I've been swayed by the discussion on the Team Reroll for Blitz kick off catch. Once a list has been compiled, I will add it to the league that I run (DIBBL), which I've been meaning to write rules for.

So, let's get this list growing. What are the bugs?

Table 1:
Client Breakers

Table 2:
Rules Divergence, which can be fixed by players

Table 3:
Annoyances which have to be accepted, but it's nice to know about them
Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 04:23 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the ideal place for this would be the help wiki.
ramchop



Joined: Oct 12, 2013

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 04:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Where is this Help Wiki? Is there discussion there?

Once the list is finished I agree it should be in Help. But let's build it first Smile
Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 04:40 Reply with quote Back to top

https://fumbbl.com/help:

This is the wiki... it should be pretty much a goto point for anyone new to the site...

But sure lets discuss... lets see...

There are some issues with Animosity, it sometimes causes a turnover but never figured out why or when...

Safe Throw apparently causes a turnover on a 1...

Some issues with Diving Tackle and Shadowing I think... can't be used together? Best check in the reports....

Something with pass block and one of these skills perhaps... Some gamebreaking stuff...

As for genuine flaws i dunno.. the whole optionality thing is a difference from the boardgame so no bug...
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 04:53 Reply with quote Back to top

I think a forum post is good. As this advertises and makes sure everyone is aware of them.

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 05:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Nice one, ramchop! I think the forum thread makes sense, so people can contribute to building the list before it gets added to the help section.

One to add for game-breakers:

Pass Block and Hypnotic Gaze: If a player with both skills attempts a Pass Block action and falls prone in a non-legal pass block destination square, it is impossible to complete the action and so the game cannot proceed (and is unrecoverable). Only realistically affects Eldril Sidewinder.

I guess the solution is to not risk using Eldril for a pass block, if there is a risk he could fail a dodge in a non-legal square (although it reduces his usefulness slightly). Would be good to know what the official position is on games that get locked by this.

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tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 06:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Game Breakers.

Shadowing also crashes the save if the blocker Grabs you into a place where you shadow their follow up. Same situation, do not use Shadowing on the blocker who just hit you, via Side Step or via Grab. NB: Any other player shadowing a block follow up is fine, just not the target of the block.


Hypnotic Gaze with Pass Block. A failed pass block move (failed dodge or leap) that did not yet reach a valid square for normally ending the Pass Block move will lock the game save if the player has Hypnotic Gaze. Star player Eldril Sidewinder has both skills.


Spiked Ball with Dump-Off. If you stab someone with the ball on the moving team when using a Dump-Off pass, it ends their team turn before the blitz is resolved and prevents any further actions in the game. This is rare even in a league with a permanent spiked ball.

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CRP Breakers.

Overtime: Secret Weapons are not correctly removed from play when banned at the end of the second half, if there is overtime. One should not use secret weapons in overtime unless properly allowed.



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Annoyances, should try to not take advantage.

Blitz action: if you click the target of your Blitz after using a re-roll on a Dodge or GFI to get next to them, but do so too quickly before your client has fully synchronised with the sever about the re-roll result, your block from the blitz action can be lost. This can be recovered if you are able to move more squares, and sometimes is recovered if the client is reloaded.

Throw Team-Mate if a thrown Right Stuff player without the ball lands on or scatters to an empty square with the ball in it, including a ball that scattered from a knocked-down ball carrier, the client ends their team turn incorrectly.

Bombardier: when a thrown bomb explodes, and the result is the ball stops in the square of a player who was not already carrying the ball before the bomb action (such as at kickoff if the ball has not landed, or if it scattered from the ball carrier and was caught), then that player gets another bomb to throw. This second bomb should not exist.

Ball & Chain: If a No Hands B&C pushes a prone player onto an empty square with the ball in it, this ends the team turn as if the B&C had moved onto the ball.

Animosity: rarely, a failed Animosity roll will end the team turn. The game shows an "end move" option first. Throwing or handing off to a valid target, or reloading the client, may clear the bug.

Blood Lust: (possibly only with Hypnotic Gaze) rarely, a failed Blood Lust roll will end the team turn. The game shows an "end move" option first, after feeding. Trying to move the player at this point (which does nothing), or reloading the client, may clear the bug.


--

Yep, I mostly play the funny teams. There's a few more, but I need time to look them up.

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akaRenton



Joined: Apr 15, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 10:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Good work this Ramchop. I would guess that sadly very few coaches use the wiki, and there is also the issue that the wiki has grown somewhat organically so is not put together in the most logical way in many places.

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tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 12:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Couple more.

Game breaking.

Player Set Up: When setting up for a drive, or when resetting with Perfect Defence (?), the server and client may lose synchronisation, usually if players rapidly exchange position. If the game won't let you end your set up because of this, you must save set up, then load set up, to continue the game.

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CRP differences

Blitz! kickoff: if blitzing a player under the ball. It gives the option to Dump Off if the player under it is blitzed and has that skill. It will also scatter immediately if the player under it is placed prone (by Wrestling or Piling On) and that will end the team turn if the blitzing player does so. Do not Dump Off during a Blitz! kickoff, and avoid going prone under the ball in the air.

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Annoyances.

Missing Players: Players may ghost (appear on screen but be non-functional), or disappear completely, usually during a Quick Snap kick off with rapid exchanges of player position. The server treats the lost player as being in reserves, and they will be found in reserves after the end of the current drive. Your opposing coach can see that your player has vanished, as should you if you reload the game.

Pro: The client does not support re-rolling a failed Pro roll with a team re-roll. CRP explicitly allows you to re-roll the Pro roll, but not the original roll, after choosing to use Pro.

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Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 12:56 Reply with quote Back to top

akaRenton wrote:
Good work this Ramchop. I would guess that sadly very few coaches use the wiki, and there is also the issue that the wiki has grown somewhat organically so is not put together in the most logical way in many places.


Odd, I find the help section to be much more accessible than the forum.
Sometimes I hear people say stuff like 'use the search function' but I have spent years here and I have never been able to find anything meaningful that way. Usually you get either tons of matches or none at all and never in the order you want them... usually it just prioritizes latest articles....

So... while forum articles can be bumped up any time to be current, I don't think I have ever gotten stranded on an old thread on my own.
tmoila



Joined: Nov 25, 2012

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 13:01 Reply with quote Back to top

CRP Breakers

You cannot foul during the free turn of Blitz!.


This is blatantly wrong from CRP and needs to be fixed ASAP.


Last edited by tmoila on Oct 09, 2016 - 23:51; edited 1 time in total
akaRenton



Joined: Apr 15, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 13:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Wreckage wrote:
akaRenton wrote:
Good work this Ramchop. I would guess that sadly very few coaches use the wiki, and there is also the issue that the wiki has grown somewhat organically so is not put together in the most logical way in many places.


Odd, I find the help section to be much more accessible than the forum.
Sometimes I hear people say stuff like 'use the search function' but I have spent years here and I have never been able to find anything meaningful that way. Usually you get either tons of matches or none at all and never in the order you want them... usually it just prioritizes latest articles....

So... while forum articles can be bumped up any time to be current, I don't think I have ever gotten stranded on an old thread on my own.


What I meant was there is a lot more entries in the wiki than is obvious, many of which you really have to hunt through multiple sub sections to find. Many are outdated or wrong, the categories aren't always the best fit to find that piece of information and many links are completely dead.

It really could do with a big tidy up.

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Gozer_the_Gozerian



Joined: May 30, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 14:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Another thing that I have had happen a couple times during games is that if one ends an opponent's turn while they are choosing their block dice result, it re-rolls the block dice and chooses a skull. I suppose that this is more of an annoyance than a game-breaker, and can be avoided by not taking longer than 4 minutes to go, but I still felt kind of badly after my opponent lost the game as a result.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 09, 2016 - 15:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Gozer_the_Gozerian wrote:
Another thing that I have had happen a couple times during games is that if one ends an opponent's turn while they are choosing their block dice result, it re-rolls the block dice and chooses a skull. I suppose that this is more of an annoyance than a game-breaker, and can be avoided by not taking longer than 4 minutes to go, but I still felt kind of badly after my opponent lost the game as a result.



No, this isn't really what happens.

What happens is if you time someone out mid-block, the client ignores whatever the initial dice result was, and rerolls it. Not to skull for definite, but anything. As such, you should definitely avoid timing out while a block is still being resolved - you could change pushes into pows for example.

(Endzone is an expert on this one!)


As an aside, if this has happened "a couple of times", I would question why you've repeated doing it, knowing what happened the first time?

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