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soultoken



Joined: Dec 03, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2020 - 21:40 Reply with quote Back to top

In a min max environment I guess we will be going for random skills and firing players that get a skill you don't like. Maybe not on Blitzers but linemen etc i could see this being a thing.
Rawlf



Joined: Jul 15, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2020 - 23:24 Reply with quote Back to top

I do not see a lot of random skilling and firing players coming. 15 games is a very short time for this and 10k TV dont seem to hurt too much.

In 15 games and with random MVPs, how many players can you hope to develop? Maybe 4-6? Probably 4 rather than 6. But what do you do if the MVP goes to John Lino whom you are not planning with? Keep his 4spp unused is one option, then you can redraft him at +20k cost after the season. Not terribly appealing. Or you could spin the wheel of fortune and either strike gold with block or something, at minmax value, or something useful you didnt plan with like kick or dp, also at minmax cost, or maybe you get something almost completely useless. Then you have a piece of LOS-meat at +10k that you wont redraft (if he lives that long) or maybe even do replace after all if you happen to drown in money.

I can also see this in tournaments, when you spend your last spp-coins to max out your team. If you asume you wont get enough spp for a picked primary before the tourney ends, why not go for the random one that might at least help a little.
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 16, 2020 - 00:22 Reply with quote Back to top

What percentage of "random" skills are good in each tree? I'd probably be happy with Strength randoms for big guys for example - most are pretty good and only 1 or 2 are useless. Keep in mind some pf the weakest skills (like pass block and pro) have been buffed in the new edition.

The other advantage? You get them sooner! Players get more and more expensive each season. The only way to enjoy a cheap multi skilled player quickly is to embrace the random!

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Traul



Joined: Jun 09, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 16, 2020 - 01:07 Reply with quote Back to top

"Sooner" is only an advantage if you are facing teams with the same number of games as you. In a TV-matched environment, it only means you end up facing minimaxed teams with more games than you and punching above your weight. Overall, the whole system seems to relies a lot on teams wanting to grow since one can just refuse to skill linos: just hoard SPP until 18 (i.e. forever for them.)
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 16, 2020 - 01:36 Reply with quote Back to top

Traul wrote:
"Sooner" is only an advantage if you are facing teams with the same number of games as you. In a TV-matched environment, it only means you end up facing minimaxed teams with more games than you and punching above your weight. Overall, the whole system seems to relies a lot on teams wanting to grow since one can just refuse to skill linos: just hoard SPP until 18 (i.e. forever for them.)


EXCEPT by the time your lino has hit 18 SPP, he is probably in his second season and costing 20K more. By the time he gets his next skill after that, he might be in his third season and costing 40K more, and you still only have 2 stat/skills. In a more typical table top environment, a season would be 10 games, not 15 or 20, making the attraction of early skills higher.

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Traul



Joined: Jun 09, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 16, 2020 - 02:26 Reply with quote Back to top

That is the whole point. The lino will never reach his first skill before the end of the season, at which point he gets redrafted, therefore he will never cost more than base price. Minimaxing is a lot easier in the BB2020 system.
Azeroth84



Joined: Aug 29, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 16, 2020 - 11:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Imho there’s another point of view related to skill improvement and it’s giving inducements / nuffle’s pray during the season. Getting 40k for a chosen double is way a lot (it’s 4 random general skill) and gambling helps keeping tv low.
On the other side, many new combo’s arise with the chance of getting doubles at will, but probably ti should be picked for expensive player with highest reward (thinking about big guy block spam).
At last watch out for random mvp. A lineman with mvp in my opinion quite always calls for a random primary skill. before it was quite totally useless/ wasted (only exception elves).
Frowny



Joined: Apr 27, 2020

Post   Posted: Aug 18, 2020 - 17:02 Reply with quote Back to top

I think we'll see a few strategies on different players
Linemen - random general
Positionals- possibly start random, or random stat but most likely all picked.
Big guys-picked doubles for block or pro, then
Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 18, 2020 - 18:33 Reply with quote Back to top

soultoken wrote:
In a min max environment I guess we will be going for random skills and firing players that get a skill you don't like. Maybe not on Blitzers but linemen etc i could see this being a thing.

Of course. Past experiences tells us that we will figure out a best practise for how to farm randomly skilled TV-bargains.

I'm guessing A primary access stunties will benefit from this, for example.

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Mingoose



Joined: Jul 28, 2016

Post   Posted: Aug 18, 2020 - 19:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Can anyone confirm or deny whether SPP come free on the redraft? If they are not maintained or somehow cost something to redraft, I could see throwing a small tally of SPP into the wind as a random skill just to see if it makes the player re-draftable. If you get a silly skill just let him retire.

On the other hand, if you can bring SPP over from season to season, I would expect people to SPP farm an entire season and redraft a skilless positional for the +20k, and immediately cash in on a skill combo to start the season with a way under-priced Uber positional.
Traul



Joined: Jun 09, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 18, 2020 - 20:14 Reply with quote Back to top

SPP have no TV cost, only skills do, but there is the flat agent fee to pay.

Besides, your lino is never going to be under-priced, his TV always increases normally for his skills and agent fees do not count toward TV except during re-drafting. In a TV-matched environment, the only effect is to make you face older teams than you.

In an age-based environment, paying agent fees decreases your starting TV at the beginning of a season and gaining skills just after re-drafting increases it. You have to pick at least 2 skills to have a net positive +2 TV which means hoarding around 15 SPP. The price for that is to play the end of the previous season under-skilled, which means fewer SPP earned, a higher risk of injury and a higher risk of losing fans. The risk/reward ratio changes depending on how late the player earns enough SPP to skill-up. Overall, it does not look like a viable long-term team building strategy but delaying skills earned in the last couple of games could make sense, especially if you were planning on re-hiring the player anyway.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 18, 2020 - 21:54 Reply with quote Back to top

@Traul yep, agree

@Mingoose, SPP is ignored in redraft, you can roll unspent SPP into next season to give yourself a TV boost yea.
But it means paying more towards Agent Fees compared to getting a rookie instead

I can see it used on key positionals that you're going to keep anyway, delay the skillup for a game or two at the end of season to make it cheaper to redraft him


SPP cannot be hoarded past the point at which you could afford a +stat
Which is 18-50 spp depending which advancement it is
Mingoose



Joined: Jul 28, 2016

Post   Posted: Aug 18, 2020 - 22:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Sp00keh wrote:

SPP cannot be hoarded past the point at which you could afford a +stat
Which is 18-50 spp depending which advancement it is


Ahhhh okay then, that takes care of the abuse possibility, thanks!
Carnis



Joined: Feb 03, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 19, 2020 - 23:10 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:

*Urge to spite increases*

"I'll show you competitive play with my legion of sneaky git pro elf linemen!"

I have 4 cents to add to this discussion:

1) Go read the new sneaky git rules and delete above comment. Sneaky git in 2020 is buffed in a very significant and meaningful way, becoming the best fouling skill of new Blood Bowl (you are immune to sendoffs for no reason, you are less likely to sent off after killing your opponent, you can run to safety after fouling). Better than dirty player +2 on the deathroller.

2) This random skillups was a good idea / chance to cleanup the skilltable. Other than general skills (where I would only delete FEND), much of the skills available are so worth nothing that essentially taking a random skill means buying a 6spp skill for 30spp.

Skills I would instantly delete from the random table are too many to name, but multiple block is the prime offender being useless to ultimately everyone (even a dark elf assassin is better with block/dodge for survival & sidestep for free blocks). edit: marginally useful to treemen

3) Comment about SPP hoarders and SPP avoiders was a good one, I think we will have dwarf runners picking their favourite stats (because they are SPP hoarders), meaning every dwarf team will run a block, dodge, movement8 runner after 10ish games. Whereas other more balanced carry teams like orks will be splitting the SPP all round which means merry mb guard spam will be ubiquitous and orks will be very uniform with 0 stats in the early stages.

4) Ogres might be viable for random primary after taking a 40k block for first skill.
DonnyRainboe



Joined: Sep 13, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 04:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Plus your luck is cool, but even after you lose once or twice you should be happier not bitter.
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