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Poll
Will you stall less in BB2020 to maximise you winnings?
I never stall anyway
4%
 4%  [ 6 ]
I won't stall, I want the money
2%
 2%  [ 3 ]
Probably stall less
15%
 15%  [ 21 ]
Winning is more important - I will keep stalling
60%
 60%  [ 81 ]
Not sure
9%
 9%  [ 13 ]
I am on the BB2020 boycott train
7%
 7%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 134


MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 23, 2021 - 17:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Tomb Kings don't score reasonably well in 3 turns, even without Pouring Rain.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 23, 2021 - 21:04 Reply with quote Back to top

3 turns isn't enough. I may be alone here, but I relish long, nasty scrums that eat time. The dance is most of the fun.

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Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice. Focus instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Feb 23, 2021 - 21:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Oh, TK offence, lovely!

Deep kick? Spend one turn to get your thrower to the ball (backwards)
Spend two more turns to get back to scrimmage.
Spend 2-3 turns to get from line of scrimmage to touchdown.

That is 6 turns, only if your pick up works, and if you're virtually unopposed (i.e. your ma4-5 cage, protecting an ma6 baller, can advance by its full allowance every single turn LOL)

Sometimes even 8 turns isn't enough to score with certain rosters.
moph



Joined: Sep 16, 2020

Post   Posted: Feb 23, 2021 - 21:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Joost wrote:

If you want to stop stalling from being a good strategy, you need to improve chances for the defense to stop a TD.


This is true.
moph



Joined: Sep 16, 2020

Post   Posted: Feb 23, 2021 - 21:18 Reply with quote Back to top

I would suggest Four 4-turn quarters. All these changes would probably need some readjusting in some of the team rosters. (or just make Tomb Kings a thing of the past;).
AzraelEVA



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Feb 23, 2021 - 22:00 Reply with quote Back to top

To stop stalling you need the following rule.
The offense has 2 turns to gain the ball in possession. If after 2 turns the ball is still not in posession of either team the drive ends and the kicking team changes.
Whatever team is in posession of the ball after playing for 2 turns is now the offense. As long as the offense can advance the ball at least one square towards the opposing endzone during a turn the drive will continue. If the offense fails to do so the drive ends and the offense is now the kicking team. If the ball is dropped after the offense has been chosen either team has 2 turns to get in possesion of the ball to become the offense. If a team manages to score a touchdown it ends the drive and the opposing team has to kick the ball.
A full game has 4 drives. If the game is the final and would end on a draw at the end of the 4 drives additional drives are added until the game isn't a draw anymore.

Now defending is easier if you prevent the ball holder from advancing or by freeing the ball and protecting it on the ground for 2 turns
DrDeath



Joined: Mar 27, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 23, 2021 - 22:10 Reply with quote Back to top

moph wrote:
Joost wrote:

If you want to stop stalling from being a good strategy, you need to improve chances for the defense to stop a TD.


This is true.


Yes this is crucial. Unfortunately however, it will be much more difficult to play defence in BB2020 because they have made leaping into cages more difficult, break tackle into cages is more difficult for strong players, and even if you manage that retrieving the ball is more difficult too due to difficult leaping, greater difficulty in passinng it away, and worst of all the new skill Safe Pair of Hands. What is the point in all that, if even with a successful sack the ball carrier can just choose to lay the ball in say 3 of his own Tackle Zones? Utterly stupid skill.

So what is left? I fear only two realistic options: i) have a big punch-up if you are a bash side, or ii) dance out of the way and just try to maintain a passive screen if you are an agility side. That is so impoverished compared to the diversity of play we have now. And indeed - why bother scoring quickly if it;s going to be almost impossible to turn it over on defence now?
Waagh



Joined: Apr 13, 2019

Post   Posted: Feb 24, 2021 - 03:14 Reply with quote Back to top

moph wrote:
I would suggest Four 4-turn quarters. All these changes would probably need some readjusting in some of the team rosters. (or just make Tomb Kings a thing of the past;).


This blew my mind
cromag



Joined: Jan 21, 2021

Post   Posted: Feb 24, 2021 - 06:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Stalling is a legitimate strategy and this whole thread is trying to find ways to make dwarfs/chaos dwarfs/tomb kings/shambling undead worse.
The profits from scoring will be slightly lower and their injuries will be much higher if they stall because of how many players they have to dedicate to a cage to stall.
The stall is a symptom, not the problem. The problem is more likely to be due to casualties.

_________________
Always be blocking / Never ever trust your dice / Fear is the killer.
Wozzaa



Joined: Apr 23, 2016

Post   Posted: Feb 24, 2021 - 06:39 Reply with quote Back to top

https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=976864

Hmmm this team (not mine obviously) seems to do just fine with 0 Leap and 0 Break Tackle.

It is 100% possible to defend well without leap or break tackle.

I actually think the play styles will be fine, and people will find interesting ways to play within the BB2020 ruleset.

As for stalling... It's here to stay in form or another. If you watch the best players they often don't get within scoring distance with the ball until the last few turns. They are not technically stalling, they are not in range, but they sure as hell are stalling- not scoring, not letting you have the ball, not giving you time to score back.


Oh... And the best players will still come out on top.

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ThierryM



Joined: Mar 27, 2015

Post   Posted: Feb 24, 2021 - 11:25 Reply with quote Back to top

No more M10 Gutters is a good start in the way for less stalling !
As a skeletons' breeder it's depressing to see those one turners / windscreen swipers at work...
That's why when we catch a staller we break both legs, and sometimes the arms. To be sure that the lesson is learned )

Stalling shall remain risky and enforcing any half efficient rule will do more harm than good.

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Breeder of Bony Legends !
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 24, 2021 - 12:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Wozzaa wrote:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=976864

Hmmm this team (not mine obviously) seems to do just fine with 0 Leap and 0 Break Tackle.

Seemed. It has been retired. Nitpicking but I agree with your point. Razz
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Feb 24, 2021 - 14:35 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Wozzaa wrote:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=976864

Hmmm this team (not mine obviously) seems to do just fine with 0 Leap and 0 Break Tackle.

Seemed. It has been retired. Nitpicking but I agree with your point. Razz

Team summary says Finished their box trophy run at 21/4/0.
Makes sense for a Box Trophy team to be retired since they will not play any more games. This coach seems to have retired almost all there teams. No idea if that is in protect to the new rules or just the way they play.

Skill wise they do have a dead Leap Blitzer but it looks like they only played two games with Leap.

It seems the skill selection is Dodge, Block/Wrestle and a little Tackle and Guard. Not much from our 40+ skills on offer with random selection! I will certainly have a look at some of the game logs and see how they defended.
Waagh



Joined: Apr 13, 2019

Post   Posted: Feb 24, 2021 - 19:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Lyracian wrote:
MattDakka wrote:
Wozzaa wrote:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=976864

Hmmm this team (not mine obviously) seems to do just fine with 0 Leap and 0 Break Tackle.

Seemed. It has been retired. Nitpicking but I agree with your point. Razz

Team summary says Finished their box trophy run at 21/4/0.
Makes sense for a Box Trophy team to be retired since they will not play any more games. This coach seems to have retired almost all there teams. No idea if that is in protect to the new rules or just the way they play.

Skill wise they do have a dead Leap Blitzer but it looks like they only played two games with Leap.

It seems the skill selection is Dodge, Block/Wrestle and a little Tackle and Guard. Not much from our 40+ skills on offer with random selection! I will certainly have a look at some of the game logs and see how they defended.


That's alot of blodge and wrodge and guard!
Wozzaa



Joined: Apr 23, 2016

Post   Posted: Feb 24, 2021 - 20:20 Reply with quote Back to top

In the new rules it'll be easier to build like that. So will be easier to build a team that is really good at defending. Instead of hoping for guard (doubles), I'll save up for it on one or two catchers.

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