52 coaches online • Server time: 21:08
Index Search Usergroups Profile
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post Feature request: Cou...goto Post Secret League Americ...goto Post Gamefinder - how to ...
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post 24 Posted: Sep 11, 2021 - 22:33 Reply with quote Back to top

From the latest FAQs

Quote:
Q: What happens if a player rolls a random Skill and gains one that they could take, but cannot actually use? Such as if a player with the No Hands trait gained the Catch skill. (p.74)
A: In these instances, roll again until they gain a Skill they
could actually use


I can think of a few that fall under this definition.

1) Ball and Chain forbids Juggernaut, Break Tackle, jump up, dirty player*, sneaky git*

1b) Ball and Chain with Pile Driver allows dirty player, sneaky git

1c) Ball and Chain with No Hands forbids very long legs

2) no hands forbids Catch, sure hands, safe pair of hands, diving catch, extra arms, monstrous mouth, big hand, all passing skill except on the ball and leader*

2b) no hands and bombardier allows any passing skills except fumblerooskie

2c) on the ball still explicitly forbidden by Ball and Chain no matter what combination of no hands and/or bombardier is also present

3) av8+ or lower forbids Iron Hard Skin

4) pa- forbids all passing skills apart from Leader, On the ball, fumblerooskie, dump-off, nerves of steel

5) st8 forbids dauntless

5b) st8 with multiple block allows dauntless

6) ST4 or lower Ogres (and other players with TTM) cannot use TTM, and therefore Strong Arm is forbidden to them

7) Monstrous Mouth FORBIDS Catch.

7b) Catch + Sure Hands FORBIDS Monstrous Mouth.


Last edited by Java on Nov 22, 2021 - 17:18; edited 10 times in total
C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Sep 11, 2021 - 22:42 Reply with quote Back to top

B&C can still use Wrestle to bring down a block opponent so think that is fair to be a usable skill (even if very niche). Can Thick Skull help an b&C if surfed? If so, still valid (but again niche).
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Sep 11, 2021 - 22:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Ball and chain counts all stunned results as KOs
Therefore there is no difference between them and the skill, one could argue, is "not used"

Similarly you could say that IF you already have pile driver on your fanatic, dirty player and sneaky git become legal
tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 12, 2021 - 01:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Players with PA - also can't use most passing skills.
Fumblerooskie, Leader, Nerves of Steel, and On the Ball are OK. So Accurate, Cannoneer, Cloud Burster, Dump-Off, Hail Mary Pass, Pass, Running Pass, and Safe Pass are out.

VLL can be used with no hands, as it modifies the Jump result, and Wights can Jump.

VLL can't be used if you have both Ball & Chain and No Hands, as then you can't interfere or jump.

Can't use DP or SG with Ball & Chain unless it already has Piledriver. Like, a one skill fanatic with Dirty Player can't use the skill, and the FAQ says, what do I do if I can't actually use the skill.

That's what the word "actually" means. It's different to "potentially".

I understand the implementation issues around conditions, but also, it's better to forbid something that's normally forbidden.

Also, like, an Allows array that over-rides the Forbids array, so Piledriver Allows DP and SG, even if previously banned. And Bombadier allows the passing skills.

What else.
Max ST is 8, so player with ST 8 can't take Dauntless unless they have Multiple Block.

Players with AV 7 or less can't take Iron Hard Skin.

_________________
ImageImage
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Sep 12, 2021 - 09:16 Reply with quote Back to top

I've edited your analysis into the list above using the forbid/allow keywords and added that bombardier doesn't unlock fumblerooskie for no hands players

Might need a final double check Smile
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Sep 12, 2021 - 09:53 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not including +PA in the "no hands forbids" list as it's not a skill (so not covered by the faq) and you will always have alternatives to it such as another stat or a secondary skill
King_Ghidra



Joined: Sep 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Sep 12, 2021 - 10:51 Reply with quote Back to top

some of these don't fall under the this rule.

iron hard skin? anyone can use iron hard skin to stop an opposing player using claw against them. the skill is used successfully regardless of your av. fwiw, a player could get iron hard skin and subsequently get an av increase that means they now get value from the skill. but this is irrelevant, the value is not the issue here it's the ability to actually use the skill.
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Sep 12, 2021 - 12:20 Reply with quote Back to top

A goblin with iron hard skin is knocked down by a yeti. The armour roll is 8+. But the goblin uses iron hard skin to cancel claw. Now the armour roll is 8+.

I'm not sure what was the point there.

Anything else apart from IHS?
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 12, 2021 - 18:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Ball & Chain + Pile Driver and Sneaky Git would really suck: all it would do is maybe allow you to go to the KO bin rather than the ejected bin, and then get ejected at the end of the drive anyway. Technically usable, but totally useless. So ... does that make it actually useful? I mean, it has an application, but it's truly pathetic. Like, do we wanna live in a world where we do that to a coach who takes a Ball and Chain, then keeps him through Pile Driver and takes a random secondary?

_________________
Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice, but instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Sep 12, 2021 - 19:53 Reply with quote Back to top

do you want to be boring, or do you want to be remembered as the guy who has a fanatic with a foul counter larger than 0? Very Happy
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 12, 2021 - 19:58 Reply with quote Back to top

It's one less bribe to keep him in the game, so yes, it has uses. (And could otherwise be relevant in secret league or other custom rosters)
Sai_Maa



Joined: Mar 08, 2017

Post   Posted: Sep 14, 2021 - 08:04 Reply with quote Back to top

tussock wrote:
Players with PA - also can't use most passing skills.
Fumblerooskie, Leader, Nerves of Steel, and On the Ball are OK. So Accurate, Cannoneer, Cloud Burster, Dump-Off, Hail Mary Pass, Pass, Running Pass, and Safe Pass are out.


Player with "PA -" can take PA stat up and get to PA6+, "No Hands" however denies handling ball altogether
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Sep 14, 2021 - 09:43 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd say tussock's first post here argued quite convincingly that the potential of using the skill later doesn't mean actually being able to use that skill now, and so doesn't clear the skill for selection.

one little change: thick skull is off the list, quoting an argument from discord here

Quote:
Ball & Chain: "If this player ever Falls Over, is Knocked Down, or is Placed Prone, [roll injury] treating a stunned result as a KO result."

The Injury by the Crowd rule is its own injury modifications, and does not call to Falls Over, Knocked Down, or Placed Prone.
So you just don't apply that (If - then) function in the Ball & Chain.


thick skull comes in handy if the crowd rolls for injury on your fanatic

very narrow use, but still


EDIT


and it works fine in the client, if you have a TS B&C chainpushed, an injury roll of 8 goes into the reserves
Kransky



Joined: Sep 12, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2021 - 14:09 Reply with quote Back to top

There’s one more: Throw Team Mate requires ST5 to use - so an Ogre that has suffered a -STR injury therefore has strong arm forbidden.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2021 - 14:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Fun topic.

I would disagree with the AV 8+ and Iron Hard Skin. The skill still works; just not doing anything very useful.

It would be much better if this was the way the rules worked as Gutter Runners would have better odds on that random double Mutation they take. IHS really needed to stop any modifiers to the AV roll including chainsaw and fouling to make it worth taking; but that is really a different topic.

_________________
Nuffle wills it.

Lyracian.
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic