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Azeroth84
Last seen 4 years ago
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Archive

2016

2016-08-23 00:50:39
rating 5.9
2016-08-15 14:52:08
rating 6
2016-08-13 17:09:09
rating 5.9
2016-08-13 17:09:09
15 votes, rating 5.9
Khemri: 2 phases of the match (Tentative)
Hi everybody,

This is the first time I write something on Fumbbl (so have mercy!).
I'm a big fan of tactics discussion on bloodbowl, but usually I keep listening to more experienced player around tables and pcs.
Many things have been written, especially on more consolidated and solid teams. Nevertheless, some teams, less played (and maybe less playable) suffer from a double critical factor: 1st cause they're less played, so the wisdom about them is rarely o poorly spread - 2nd they need so much more explanations to work properly and many times suggestions are not so immediate to comprehend.

This time I'm trying to get it on my way, getting some specifical point and to be exaustive. Why Khemri? Cause I love bash play, but not the brutal or extrasafe one (e.g. chaos clawpompers or dwarves), but the patient, the tactical, the finesse bash.

Note: what follows is an outcome of my experience with Khemri teams in real life and on fumbbl, particulary on low TVs (<1500). Usually I do not play with high TV, so maybe some of the thoughts following cannot be considerend on higher TVs.

So why talking about match phases and what do I mean with phases?

The Khemri play is quite linear and simple in its logic: offensive and defensive drives are quite separated and each one can cover all the 8 turns. Rarely they mix up (meaning that you can't often counterscore on the defensive drive and, if played correctly, rarely you can be punished by the opponent on your offence drive).
This 1st consideration leads to a big point in my opinion: the most common result for Khemri for winning is not the 2-1 grind, but the 1-0 grind. Playing safe and with attention means that only where the opponent scores superfast (2 max 3 turns) Khemri could be able to equalize in the same half (and many times even getting 6-7 turns is not sufficient). All the other times the most common outcome is a 1-1 match.

After that, there's another element that I'd like to rebut: the most difficult drive is the defensive one, not the offensive.
I assume this considering what follows:
- On average, Khemri teams are not so more bashy than other more playable and cas oriented teams (orks, dwarves, chaos, undead, etc). That means that getting cas is a random pick and cannot be an element to build Khemri strategy on when setting up (the "event" of heavy cas is discussed after).
- Fouling: fouling with Khemri teams is one of the most dangerous thing to do. With AV7 Khemri are likely to suffer from injuries and KO. When fouling they have to sorround properly the player prone, breaking your coverage of the field. Then, without a dirty player, fouling is even riskier.

There's another final point that can support what I've said before. The initial choice of attacking vs defending. Usually with Khemri I decide to defend as a 1st drive. That again generates 2 consequences:
- If I go heavy fauling, there're big chances to be sent off, gaining stunned and KO many times -> I lose a player, the other team maybe not.
- If I try to bash the opponent, despite strenght, there aren't many MB around, so the damage caused can be minimal and recoverable with a couple of drive endings (when the opponent scores and when the half ends).

You have to accept that when it's 0-1, in the same half, trying a quick TD will expose the team to backfire.

Now the good news. Khemri are great in defending. They're better than many teams out there when the goal is preventing the opponent to score. In my experience, Khemri teams are the one with the fewer amount of TD taken.
The first thought when defending with Khemri is just not to let the opponent pass through your lines. I don't worry about what commonly can be found around, written or talked. Forcing the opponent to score with Khemri often leads to ruin, cause it breaks the defensive line, needs pressure on the ball with poorly talented blitzers and often is followed by something that you'd regret (you can do this only if the opponent is already "oriented" to score quickly - e.g. when he forces one side and cover with a cage the potential receiver). On the other hand, I know that if the opponent scores on his 5th turn, the match will be at best a tie.

There are 2 big exceptions to these considerations:
- Elves: it is rare stopping elves from scoring (few chances vs dark elves, quite impossible vs the others). And they usually can do this at their conditions too. There are some "tricks" vs them, but often it's a missed roll that allows recovering the ball. A skilled elf player will quite always keep the ball under control. So when playing elves I immediately consider a 1-1 result, and that's give birth to new chances: the famous elves greed. Many times the opponent knows that Khemri are oriented to a 1-1 result, so he will try to pressure your cage, even if Kemri are not forcing the TD. Playing safe and with ultrattention vs an aggressive elf player can open up interesting opportunities (ah the wardancer trying to leap in the cage when the other elves are out of position and he FAILS!).
- Cas: if the cas hit the opponent hard, or maybe he's unlucky with KO rolls, it's time to force the TD. If the opponent is down 3-4 men, chances to get the tie in the same half are not so little.

In conclusion IMHO:

- Most common result to aim to is 1-0. If things get bad it has to be considered a 1-1 result
- Vs Elves Khemri are likely to suffer 1 TD. If the opponent scores quickly or he's men down, the 2-1 grind is possible. In the other outcomes, 1-1 should be the priority.

If your read till down here consideration arising are 2:
- You've had nothing to do today, so why not to read something about a never ever played team
- Maybe something of interesting is written down here

Hoping the 2nd one, I'll accept even both. It's a 1-1 :-)
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Comments
Posted by seanh1986 on 2016-08-13 18:50:08
Nice read. I used to play a bunch of Khemri in LRB4, but I stopped for CRP. The main reason for that was Decay. It made is very difficult to sustain my Tomb Guardians and I didn't enjoy that.

The nuking of fouling really hurt, as well.

I do agree that Khemri are almost better on defence than offence but often it's hard to put your throw-ra on defence because if he gets KOed or injured, you can never get that equalizer.
Posted by MattDakka on 2016-08-13 19:23:59
Cycling Thro-Ras at 3rd skill until you get one with +MA or, even better, +AG, is in my opinion a very important roster strategy.
AG 2 makes pick ups risky, especially when it's raining, failing the pick up slows down the offence: MA 7 reduces the impact of failed Pick Ups while AG 3 makes them more likely.
About bashing with Khemri: I generally build my Blitz-Ras as tacklepombers and Tomb Guardians with Mighty Blow and Guard but to increase the chances of causing casualties I'd like to try Piling On as 2nd skill on Tomb Guardians instead of Guard.
This way you can exploit to the max those dead turns when your opponent is stalling or on the 8th turn after he scored for the LOS blocks.

Posted by Azeroth84 on 2016-08-13 19:24:06
Thanks a lot.

About TG, I use to play as I said at middle / low TV (mainly playing here, on tourneys and association leagues) so I do not suffer so much from decay. On the other hand, even with decay, the really only outcome you fear is death, cause:
- -1Mv is acceptable (1 M3 on 4 TG can be stand)
- -1Av is acceptable (AV 8 on a S5 guy is quite good)
- -1AG... yes nuffle
- -1S quite rare
- MNG this impaires a bit, but only for 1 game and you're happy the outcome wasn't 6x
Things to avoid are those nasty fouls and being pushed out.
Yes it is a pain, but understandable if you can rely on 4 S5 guy. Hope to see you around for next blog (I'd like to share some numbers about Khemri playstyle that can be interesting).
Posted by Azeroth84 on 2016-08-13 19:27:43
Thanks MattDakka. I think (as I can't really rely on the +1 MV) that the very 2nd skill for a ThrowRah is KoR. If used correctly you can have the 50% of chances to get a free shot on flying kick and (obviously) counter a bit those nasty kicks.

I'd like to do another blog about Khemri skills. I hope to see you around to do some discussion.
Posted by MattDakka on 2016-08-13 19:34:10
I like Block and Leader as first skills, I cycle at third skill if it's not +MA/+AG because stacking too many normal skills on a MA 6 AG 2 ball carrier is not TV-efficient.
Kick Off return is a good skill indeed, but Leader and Block have the priority in my opinion.
Block for protection and Leader to keep the TV reasonably low since 70k rrs are very expensive.
I play with 2 Team rrs + Leader rr whenever possible.
Posted by fidius on 2016-08-13 20:00:57
You comments are insightful and original. There is some "conventional wisdom" in the Khemri playbooks that is not optimal, and you've hit on several of them. One thing that is obvious, which you allude to, is that they are a "control team" under CRP. There are not too many other options with high strength, low agility, and no starting damage skills. Focusing exclusively on damage used to work, but under CRP regularly leads to ruin (as you say).

Khemri are actually quite good in TV-matched leagues because TGs can take their Guard and not worry about gaining SPPs quickly. In tabletop leagues however they fall behind on the development curve, making them a challenge to build and maintain.
Posted by esche on 2016-08-13 20:41:40
Nice read! What is your prefered starting roster?
Posted by pythrr on 2016-08-13 21:34:45
phase 1

kill all humans

phase 2

eat humans and score
Posted by Azeroth84 on 2016-08-14 00:52:58
Hai Esche,
At 1.000 usually I staff with 3 rr, 11 men, 4 mummies, thro ra and 1 blitz ra. I think thai there are not so many deviaton from this roster. If you feel lucky you can go with only 2 rr and beef in the other blitz ra. i don't like going with 2 thro ra, there are issues in balancing.
Posted by gansus on 2016-08-15 09:54:11
A really good piece of blog entry. Really you cover some topics that are usually wrong in most Khemri Playbooks i have seen. Keep up your good work, man!