39 coaches online • Server time: 12:12
* * * Did you know? The most casualties in a single match is 21.
Recent Forum Topics  RNG speculations | Blood Bowl 2024 Edit... | SWL Season CI |
2020-05-04 10:07:55
2 votes, rating 6
2 votes, rating 6
On defense (slow vs fast teams)
Hi guys!
So i have been recently playing some Orcs in the 145 mini tournament and while playing with slow teams (orc, cdorf, Chaospact) vs. fast teams, i have run into certain issues. I dont want to bitch about AGI + players, but sometimes it feels like, an defense against those teams can go sour really fast.
So i figured out:
a) When there is nobody on the sideline, there might be a push over the sideline, which can be easy to defend or really hard (depending on speed and GFIs).
b) A rather balanced, more controlled approach is usually okish to defend for the slower team (with the usual hazard of bad blocks etc etc), but you might get back on the ball or stall the approach.
c) If fast players break through and go back in the field with GFIs very early, the drive can turn bad in a short time. In my experience, if nothing fails there, it is really hard to get behind the ball again.
So what are your tried and trued methods to defend against fast penetration plays?
So i have been recently playing some Orcs in the 145 mini tournament and while playing with slow teams (orc, cdorf, Chaospact) vs. fast teams, i have run into certain issues. I dont want to bitch about AGI + players, but sometimes it feels like, an defense against those teams can go sour really fast.
So i figured out:
a) When there is nobody on the sideline, there might be a push over the sideline, which can be easy to defend or really hard (depending on speed and GFIs).
b) A rather balanced, more controlled approach is usually okish to defend for the slower team (with the usual hazard of bad blocks etc etc), but you might get back on the ball or stall the approach.
c) If fast players break through and go back in the field with GFIs very early, the drive can turn bad in a short time. In my experience, if nothing fails there, it is really hard to get behind the ball again.
So what are your tried and trued methods to defend against fast penetration plays?
Comments
Posted by SanKuKai on 2020-05-04 10:13:35
Stay center, always... its the key. Never go on a side
Posted by Verminardo on 2020-05-04 10:39:26
As an Elf coach I am usually not too worried facing Orcs, I can usually outpace them unless I take a lot of damage. What I'm looking for is the Orc coach to overcommit and give me an opening that is big enough to pour through in force, so I can then camp on the goal line and stall tor T8 score. The key to the positional game is to think ahead to where your opponent wants to be next turn and the turn after. Leaving small gaps isn't too bad as long as moving into the gap splits the Elf team and the Orcs can then swarm the Elves and force the score. Orcs are okay to score in 3 turns so the 2-1 strategy can work for them.
A good strategy vs. Elves is to go in contact with the players that don't have Dodge, or put Tackle on the Dodgers. You need to utilize your Strength advantage so the Elves can't get a 2d block and have to dodge away, hoping for 1s to draw out the rerolls (while saving your own). When they run out of rerolls they will have to push for the score and then either they fail something or you get the chance at the counter score.
The key to beating elves is still player removal though. Hit unskilled players with Mighty Blow. Hit Dodgers with Tackle. Fouling is a gamble at best but if you have the chance to kick a skilled Blitzer or Catcher with an unskilled Lineman of yours it may be worth it. Having a Tackle MB Blitzer is very useful. A Frenzy Blitzer also adds options and removes options from the Elves. As long as there are 11 Elves on the Pitch you will have a very hard time stopping them, that is by design. But if you can get that number down to 8 or 7 things will start to look much better.
Good luck!
A good strategy vs. Elves is to go in contact with the players that don't have Dodge, or put Tackle on the Dodgers. You need to utilize your Strength advantage so the Elves can't get a 2d block and have to dodge away, hoping for 1s to draw out the rerolls (while saving your own). When they run out of rerolls they will have to push for the score and then either they fail something or you get the chance at the counter score.
The key to beating elves is still player removal though. Hit unskilled players with Mighty Blow. Hit Dodgers with Tackle. Fouling is a gamble at best but if you have the chance to kick a skilled Blitzer or Catcher with an unskilled Lineman of yours it may be worth it. Having a Tackle MB Blitzer is very useful. A Frenzy Blitzer also adds options and removes options from the Elves. As long as there are 11 Elves on the Pitch you will have a very hard time stopping them, that is by design. But if you can get that number down to 8 or 7 things will start to look much better.
Good luck!
Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2020-05-04 10:41:04
Depends. Either setup 3-4-4 properly to stop said early score, or frankly, let them have it and play for 2-1.
A fast score is not an issue - an attempted 2-3 turn that becomes an 8 turn grind with little damage taken is.
A fast score is not an issue - an attempted 2-3 turn that becomes an 8 turn grind with little damage taken is.
Posted by Muff2n on 2020-05-04 10:57:58
It is hard to shutdown the penetration, so on some level you must plan for it to happen, such as being able to pressure them into scoring quickly, or just making them roll enough dodges/GFI that if they do fail they are a bit screwed.
Counter to a post above, I slightly buff the edge the elves are most likely to go for compared to the centre when facing a faster team. I do not want them gassing down a sideline, because that means my players on the other side won't be able to contribute for at least a turn, probably more. I'd rather the opponent comes through the middle and I can collapse onto them. But let me emphasise the word 'slightly' here... I do not want them to just be able to break though and cage in the centre.
Counter to a post above, I slightly buff the edge the elves are most likely to go for compared to the centre when facing a faster team. I do not want them gassing down a sideline, because that means my players on the other side won't be able to contribute for at least a turn, probably more. I'd rather the opponent comes through the middle and I can collapse onto them. But let me emphasise the word 'slightly' here... I do not want them to just be able to break though and cage in the centre.
Posted by JanMattys on 2020-05-04 11:25:37
If they sit back and swarm you with receivers, just mark everything in sight and set up a good foul every turn.
If they try a less relaxed approach, try to make them go all in. The key is to let them choose a side, then force them into it. After that they will probably score, but on yout terms. Which means no stall and no side switch.
The key to winning against agility teams is to prevent a stall, not to prevent a score. Keep that in mind: if you can mark / block / foul a key player or try a 6+5+4+ dodge play to get 1d on that wardancer, don't bother. If you try the incredible play and fail, you basically give them another turn stall. Just do your thing and make them pay for every turn they wait.
If they try a less relaxed approach, try to make them go all in. The key is to let them choose a side, then force them into it. After that they will probably score, but on yout terms. Which means no stall and no side switch.
The key to winning against agility teams is to prevent a stall, not to prevent a score. Keep that in mind: if you can mark / block / foul a key player or try a 6+5+4+ dodge play to get 1d on that wardancer, don't bother. If you try the incredible play and fail, you basically give them another turn stall. Just do your thing and make them pay for every turn they wait.
Posted by MattDakka on 2020-05-04 13:35:50
Let me choose a side with Elves and I will still stall!
;P
;P
Posted by Verminardo on 2020-05-04 14:16:04
Also, in many cases it can be useful to keep one Blitzer back as a safety to prevent the Elves from tying up all your players.
Posted by Hoellenbote on 2020-05-04 19:57:35
Yeah true. Even though, Orc Blitzers are Str 3 and usually need help for blocks.
Posted by JanMattys on 2020-05-05 10:08:55
Fun fact:
A 1d block during normal gameplay is bad. 1d block on the ballcarrier, though, is a splendid opportunity and often the best you will ever get.
So yeah, Orc Blitzers are St3, but unless you are constantly outmanouvered by Chaos Warriors, or your defence lets an entire cage through a side, then you should be able to get your 1d on the ball with that blitzer you kept back as a safety.
A 1d block during normal gameplay is bad. 1d block on the ballcarrier, though, is a splendid opportunity and often the best you will ever get.
So yeah, Orc Blitzers are St3, but unless you are constantly outmanouvered by Chaos Warriors, or your defence lets an entire cage through a side, then you should be able to get your 1d on the ball with that blitzer you kept back as a safety.
Posted by Hoellenbote on 2020-05-05 20:29:44
Okay, that is noted. I will try to do that more often!
Aaaaand maybe i get outmanouvered from time to time *cough cough*
Aaaaand maybe i get outmanouvered from time to time *cough cough*