Posted by paulhicks on 2013-08-06 22:17:31

the illuminati

i can say no more

Posted by Woodstock on 2013-08-06 22:18:44

*poof*

Posted by harvestmouse on 2013-08-06 22:22:31

It's unsuitable for the forums, and certainly as a wiki. It would be better suited as a blog (preferably on another site) however if here without insinuating Christer's opinion on min-maxing or what admins do or don't do in certain situations.

With a blog, people can rate whether they want it or not.

Posted by BillBrasky on 2013-08-06 22:22:57

Certain admins don't like stuff that might lead to flames.

I liked it though.

Just box on.

Posted by C3I2 on 2013-08-06 22:31:20

Mouse locked it, then probably deleted it.

Posted by paulhicks on 2013-08-06 22:32:43

then almost certainly covered it in lime and buried it in an unmarked grave

Posted by pythrr on 2013-08-06 22:33:12

what guide. there was never a guide.

Posted by Beerox on 2013-08-06 22:34:17

Obama saw it, didn't like it.

Posted by pythrr on 2013-08-06 22:34:18

C3p0.

Are you making groundless accusations vs. an admin.

You know he has a BANHAMMAH.....

Posted by Azure on 2013-08-06 22:34:47

Someone just mucked out the stalls is all. Cleaned up after the ponies crapped all over the forums :P

Posted by licker on 2013-08-07 00:32:31

Here's hoping you didn't save a copy.

Posted by Cavetroll on 2013-08-07 00:52:40

I was wondering the same thing. Glad I finished reading it before refreshing the page. But now I'll never know what was on the 2nd page of comments :)

Posted by blader4411 on 2013-08-07 01:45:12

I'm not stupid, no :P
Link will be up when I get back to my desktop.

Posted by krysskroz on 2013-08-07 02:33:45

Just to be clear, are all play style/team build guides unsuitable for the forums now, or just ones that advocate unpopular play styles?

For the record, I hate min/max as much as I do T16 fouls (at least min/max is about winning) but also feel that as long as it is a build style allowed by the rules of this website then it should be given equal "protection".

Posted by garyt1 on 2013-08-07 02:50:37

Krysskroz. Basically Blader advocates the builds most likely to lead to the demise of FUMBBL, or at least many peoples enjoyment of it, if they become too frequent. We can do with very few of those.
A t16 foul can be annoying but it is one action a game rather than a complete playstyle.

Posted by licker on 2013-08-07 03:20:14

Honestly, no matter how silly it is to make a guide to something which is so mind numbingly simple to do, the guide should still be available.

So long as you're willing to put up with all the crap you'll catch for putting it up.

The later is likely why it was removed from the forum, as much as HM despised the guide in general.

All I know is any guide which promotes anti-social behavior and makes excuses for it should get all the scorn and abuse it so richly deserves. And if that sounds hypocritical to you...

blader comes off pretty poorly in all of this is all I can say, I won't be surprised when a site ban hits him.

Posted by C3I2 on 2013-08-07 03:38:13

First they came…

Posted by krysskroz on 2013-08-07 03:59:03

Min/Max is simply a function of the rules. If it is so universally despised there is no reason why the rules cannot be changed on a site such as this. Obviously there is an acceptance at higher levels of this being a viable way to play the game. I think it sucks and takes the fun out of it for me personally, but that is why I pretty much only play L anyway.

Admit it, most of us have tried to min/max characters in RP games forever and this is doing the same in this game. Does it discourage new players, maybe, but then again so does getting stomped by rookie Dorfs or Zons or getting flamed on the forums for asking basic questions.

Simply put, if it is "breaking" FUMBBL, then it should be fixed. If it is not, then we all just point and laugh at those small men (hehe) who get their kicks from lopsided games (they will be present in any game you play).

Posted by pythrr on 2013-08-07 04:05:32

"First they came…"

.... please finish your sentence.

Posted by harvestmouse on 2013-08-07 04:09:17

To be clear on 'guides'.

A guide is something factual and to be followed by newer coaches. This was set up like a guide.

However 1, a lot of this wasn't factual, but the writer's opinion. 2, though some of it was good advice, it is promoting a way of play that would have/has a negative impact on FUMBBL, so why on earth then should it be allowed here? 3, as it was the writer's opinion it was worded in such a way to incite reader's that disagreed with it.

I see no reason to give the writer the right to post that on the wiki or forums of this site.

Posted by licker on 2013-08-07 05:12:49

Love is a many splendid thing.

When it's directed at me.

Posted by Retro21 on 2013-08-07 08:41:10

It was a famous poem by Martin Niemoller during the rise of the Nazis pythrr:
****
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Catholic.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.
****

Agree that, much as I despise "gaming" BloodBowl (and absolutely hate minmaxing and the complete lack of the other coach's enjoyment) yes, it should still be available to people. At least PM the writer when it is something that has clearly taken a lot of time to do man!

Posted by B_SIDE on 2013-08-07 08:46:04

Godwin's Law dictates that this blog should have been locked a long time ago.

Posted by okostomi on 2013-08-07 08:55:32

Next step: ban all coaches with minmax teams :)

I think there was nothing illegal with the guide so deleting it is just showing the admin power over freedom of speech on the site.

Posted by cameronhawkins on 2013-08-07 10:23:03

Of course it's Christer's site, and there needn't be 'freedom of speech', per se, but I think that the locking of the thread was unnecessary. Like all the things that social groups initially consider to be socially abhorrent (e.g. homosexuality, Dungeons & Dragons) talking about things openly is the best way to make progress. There haven't really been any threads which discuss the issue that don't focus on being derisive or complaining. I was really touched that blader took the time to write such an extensive post on the subject of something which is clearly important to him.

The rationale that one should lock a thread because it may not stay 'clean' at some later date is silly, as you could lock 90% of threads along those lines. And deleting the thread so that no one else can see it is extremely petty, and an obvious personal slap at blader. It is, however, perfectly within Harvestmouse's right as an administrator, in lieu of any intervention from higher-ups.

Posted by Woodstock on 2013-08-07 10:28:20

Freedom of speech on a private site... Awesome. This is a dictatorship, and Christer is our ruler. Luckily he is a very nice and forgiving guy.

I didn't read it, but from what I've heard, I would've deleted it as well. There is no reason to promote such behaviour. Reposting it would make more then just the thread go poof...

Posted by Ehlers on 2013-08-07 10:41:01

I seriously dont understand why it was deleted.

Are we not to talk about min/max now? Are we not allowed to talk about the strategy behind it? And even so how to counter it?

It is a strategy used by many coaches and even popular coaches. Are they being anti-social? Are they destroying the FUMBBL community?

In no way did he promote in the article to be anti-social, he even gave advice to be a nice guy. If he follows those guideline is a whole other matter.

It was a well written article, maybe biased by his opinion. But even if biased by his opinion, is that not what a guide is based on? Not all guides are factual. Facts might back your point up, but personal preference is also a matter in a guide.

If you take goblins, then you can easily find the argument for taken the Bombardier or not to take him.

Even so it should maybe have been posted in Tactics & Strategy.

But why dont the admin and mods instead of give warnings to the people who went in and either trolled or flamed? People just had beaf with Blader, they went after the person instead of the ball.

Posted by harvestmouse on 2013-08-07 10:56:21

I've posted the reasons why it was deleted, so there's no reason to ask why. Either you agree or you don't agree, you are entitled to that opinion.

The bottom line is it was an extremely biased piece masquerading as a guide, that if followed as a guide would be extremely detrimental to the site.

Seems a no brainer to me.

Posted by Narlgoth on 2013-08-07 14:21:07

I believe it was noted as 'inciting the possibility of flame war'. That's enough, trolling is trolling.

Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2013-08-07 14:47:09

The only one who was trolled was Blader

Posted by pythrr on 2013-08-07 15:17:34

freedom of speech, nazis - this blog has GOT IT ALL

(btw Retro, I knew the poem, I was was just feeding the troll).

Posted by Retro21 on 2013-08-07 15:41:36

ah I should've known! Sorry.

Posted by MRnobody on 2013-08-07 17:14:17

Was totally deleted for hating on slann.