40 coaches online • Server time: 12:15
Index Search Usergroups Profile
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post SF vs SSgoto Post Place to playgoto Post Vampire level up que...
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 29, 2018 - 19:14 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm sure many of you have seen it happen. Someone blocks your player and rerolls pushes. Obviously in the hope they will get a player out early and eventually be able to dominate with on pitch player number advantage. However not only do they risk rerolling to skulls but they use a reroll for the half, and if it is not their last action of the turn they risk messing up their turn in a later failed action. It may work out for them but generally it is a bad move.

I played a chap who rerolled 2DB pushes a few times in the first half and I mentioned I wouldn't recommend he use rerolls for that. He didn't answer to that and probably didn't appreciate the suggestion. I mentioned it again early 2nd half as I suggested he will need the rerolls later. He then almost immediately rerolled a 2DB pushes blitz and got pows. But didn't hurt the player or get much value from the takedown. A couple of actions later he skulls a block and suffered a turnover with some players still unused. Made me laugh a bit and helped me get my win. I hope he learnt from it but I doubt it.

It happens in both Ranked and Box. I believe it happens more with coaches who have played on Cyanide previously.

It's a weird thing as rookie coaches would normally think of rerolls as to be used for turn end actions. Rookies may do too risky actions but at least they use the rr just when a turnover occurs. So this pushes rerolling is something that people are learning from others to do. I think it stems from clawpomb days when rerolling to a pow would then give you that great cas chance with PO. But nowadays it only makes sense of specific conditions such as if needing a crucial breakthrough of a line or hitting a ballcarrier, or maybe you have a rare chance at a low armoured, important opponent. Of course if you are on tilt and are trying to release your fury or looking for a miracle then as you were Very Happy

It would be good to see this habit reduced as it just seems poor play. Does anyone else suggest to their opponents when they keep making obvious (to you) mistakes or just keep quiet?

_________________
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 29, 2018 - 19:27 Reply with quote Back to top

This is certainly one of the things we try to teach over at the 145. I agree it probably stems from Cyanide, and more generally from the "Cas to win" approach. I usually see it in combination with poor positioning so I suppose it makes up for it a touch.

Suggestions are a touchy thing sometimes - I'll try to gauge their openness to it by asking general questions first. Most of the times it goes over well, but I've had some coaches take offense for sure.

_________________
Image
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 29, 2018 - 19:36 Reply with quote Back to top

I wouldn't blame cyanide for this at all - I'd blame CRP where people ran 11 man rosters in perpetuum and so getting ahead in cas was not just a valid tactic, but became the de facto tactic for many rosters.

I'd also say there are certain situations where rerolling pushes (or both downs) is not automatically bad, but this is something you have to learn with experience.



I do tend to say to coaches "I wouldn't have done that", but really, it depends who I'm playing - if it's someone with a lean roster and low rerolls, then they either probably know what they're doing and don't want the advice, or don't really care and kind of need the cas to stay in games.


At the end of the day, anyone else's reason for activating/playing/accepting a game are no less valid than one's own.

_________________
Image
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 29, 2018 - 19:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Qualify the other coach - take a peek at how many games they've played, ask if theyre in the mood for a more educational experience than a drag down fight, so on and so forth.

Sometimes rerolling pushes is a great thing, but like AD said - you gotta have the experience.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 29, 2018 - 20:06 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
I wouldn't blame cyanide for this at all - I'd blame CRP where people ran 11 man rosters in perpetuum and so getting ahead in cas was not just a valid tactic, but became the de facto tactic for many rosters.


Cyanide are still running CRP with full CPOMB and they seem to like it.

_________________
Image
Massive teams - massive matches - open play
lawofthewest



Joined: Nov 09, 2017

Post   Posted: Feb 09, 2018 - 18:58 Reply with quote Back to top

I reroll pushes because I can.
PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 09, 2018 - 21:07 Reply with quote Back to top

It's something I 100% never do. It's always a mistake.

Except the times I do it, when it is essential and good tactics.

_________________
Barbarus hic ego sum quia non intelligor ulli
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 09, 2018 - 21:56 Reply with quote Back to top

lawofthewest wrote:
I reroll pushes because I can.

I imagine most regular push rerollers just want to do this to have a bit more chance to see an opponent cas'd at that moment. Hoping for a quick fix.
If you are doing this every match I suggest do it less, and you will probably find the change will contribute to a slight improvement in your win rate. If it is last action of a turn, late in a half and you have rerolls to burn then go ahead but you still may regret it if you come up with double skulls.

_________________
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
lawofthewest



Joined: Nov 09, 2017

Post   Posted: Feb 09, 2018 - 22:04 Reply with quote Back to top

garyt1 wrote:
lawofthewest wrote:
I reroll pushes because I can.

I imagine most regular push rerollers just want to do this to have a bit more chance to see an opponent cas'd at that moment. Hoping for a quick fix.
If you are doing this every match I suggest do it less, and you will probably find the change will contribute to a slight improvement in your win rate. If it is last action of a turn, late in a half and you have rerolls to burn then go ahead but you still may regret it if you come up with double skulls.


From now on, I will reroll pushes more often.
uzkulak



Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 09, 2018 - 22:24 Reply with quote Back to top

If and when I do it (and only on reliable teams with decent basic skills), its not so much about getting cas as about needing the knockdown to make the rest of my turn work well. Last game I played I did it to take down my opponents star player so I could gang foul I'm off the pitch in the following turn.

I certainly wouldn't recommend it on a random block though.
Xeterog



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 09, 2018 - 22:44 Reply with quote Back to top

I know in my head not to do it, but I when the game gets frustrating, I often RR pushes just to try and get a different result. Often, I'm out of position anyway as well. Got to work on both positioning and not getting to where I feel like I have to get a knockdown with every block...

_________________
- Xeterog
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 10, 2018 - 00:31 Reply with quote Back to top

i do it all the time, but then again, i'm a terrible coach

_________________
Image
Image
tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 10, 2018 - 00:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Pro all hitters, never waste team RRs again.

_________________
ImageImage
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Powered by PNphpBB2 1.2 © 2003 PNphpBB Group
Credits