Calcium
Joined: Apr 08, 2007
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Sep 22, 2010 - 09:24 |
 
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Time to read the rules carefully I think, because you lot haven't got a friggin
Rhyming slang FTW!  |
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freak_in_a_frock
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Sep 22, 2010 - 09:47 |
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Juggernaut doesn't work with piling on, since it only converts pow/skulls to pushes, and therefore you won't actually knock your opponent over. |
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James_Probert
Joined: Nov 25, 2007
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Sep 22, 2010 - 10:07 |
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ermmm, [quote=rulebook]Juggernaut
...If this player takes a blitz action, the opposing player may not use his fend, stand firm or wrestle skills against the juggernaut players blocks...[/quote]
so, if you did drop someone, you can kill em with PO, and the other bit is a MAY, not must for converting bothdowns to pushes |
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blocknroll
Joined: Aug 04, 2009
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Sep 22, 2010 - 10:18 |
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re juggernaut - what james said ^^^^^^^
edited for reasons of saying something that was incorrect about grab. |
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Wreckage
Joined: Aug 15, 2004
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Sep 22, 2010 - 10:24 |
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[hm... th<t may not be very constructive but i notice by this conversation that fend doesn't only have almost no benefitial effect, it is also pretty easy to counter. Man does that suck ...  |
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RandomOracle
Joined: Jan 11, 2004
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Sep 22, 2010 - 11:13 |
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| Wreckage wrote: | | [hm... th<t may not be very constructive but i notice by this conversation that fend doesn't only have almost no benefitial effect, it is also pretty easy to counter. Man does that suck ... |
Fend stops opponents from following up, stops frenzy, and stops piling on. That's not beneficial?
As for juggernaut, we'll have to wait and see how often it gets taken. It does sound like a good skill for a dedicate blitzer, but they have other good skills to take as well (block, tackle, MB, claw, PO, frenzy). |
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Cribbleobblepie
Joined: Dec 15, 2006
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Sep 22, 2010 - 11:22 |
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Juggernaut is a very popular choice for aggressive Big Guys who like to Blitz a lot (Wild Animal - Minos and Rat Ogres especially), who don't have General access and can't get Block on a single. |
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p4m
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Sep 22, 2010 - 11:31 |
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| Alibaba wrote: | so... true killer player is player with...
Claw, mb, po, juggernaut, block, tackle and Grab ? |
and remember just 6 skills are available |
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Calcium
Joined: Apr 08, 2007
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Sep 22, 2010 - 11:31 |
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Agrees with Crib....
Juggernaut is great on my Mino! |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Sep 22, 2010 - 12:15 |
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| GeneralMarauder wrote: | | Is it me or does the new LRB rules sound a bit awkward? |
Its just the way people are talking about them... in practice they are fairly simple. |
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"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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Carnis
Joined: Feb 03, 2009
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Sep 22, 2010 - 12:16 |
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| Alibaba wrote: | so... true killer player is player with...
Claw, mb, po, juggernaut, block, tackle and Grab ? |
Yes, but you need frenzy, pro, horns, jump up too. Too bad you can only get 6 skills, and grab and frenzy aren't allowed on the same player.
I think what Claw has is pretty close to optimal. Could only add juggernaut + jump up, if the skill-limit wasn't already reached. |
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JoeKano
Joined: Aug 30, 2003
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Sep 22, 2010 - 12:24 |
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I take Juggernaut on Slann Krox. But i use mine as my go to hammerer. On a frenzy Big Guy i would take it as first or second single with Break Tackle as the other option, those two together means your big guy is mobile agile and hostile... |
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"Take the Strength, crush the opposing linemen, drive them broken before you and hear the lamentation of their Cheerleaders!!!"
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uuni
Joined: Mar 12, 2010
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Sep 22, 2010 - 13:24 |
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@PainState:
Thank you for your kind words. In short, my point was that because you must go through the steps 1-19 at once, so you must end up next to the Piling On victim for step 14 in order to use the skill. Many times Fend prevents this by preventing your Follow-Up in step 11, but as others have mentioned, you can deny opponents Fend skill use, if you use your Juggernaut and are making a Blitz Action.
Lets take an example:
Human Blitzer Abel has gotten fond of a new hobby, Piling On. He wants to have a little action with the Pro Elf Lineman Basil with no skills.
1) Abel declares a Block Action. Now Abel can throw a block on Basil. He rolls POW, and Basil is Pushed Back, which Abel Follows Up and then Basil is Knocked Down and Placed Prone. Abel now rolls the armour roll while standing next to Basils prone body. Roll result is 5, so Abel uses his Piling On to be Placed Prone and rerolling the armour to a roll 10, which goes through.
Now, Basil had other thoughts about their mutual hobby, and he skilled himself to Fend. Now the scenarios are these:
2) Abel declares a Block Action. Now Abel can throw a block on Basil. He rolls POW, and Basil is Pushed Back, and decides to use Fend. Now Abel cannot Follow Up and is left to his original square with Basils original square between him and Knoked Down and Placed Prone Basil. Abel now rolls the armour. Roll result is 5, and Abel cannot use his Piling On because he is not next to Basil, which gets away with a Placed Prone.
I think you might have had in mind this scenario:
3) Abel declares a Blitz Action. Abel takes a couple of moves (leave-a-square-sequences) and appears next to Basil. Now Abel changes one of his moves to throwing of a block (throw-a-block-sequence). Abel rolls POW (lucky git) and Basil is Pushed Back and decides to use Fend. Now Abel cannot Follow Up and is left to his original square with Basils original square between him and Knoked Down and Placed Prone Basil. Abel now rolls the armour. Roll result is 5, and Abel cannot use his Piling On because he is not next to Basil, which gets away with a Placed Prone.
Now even if Abel after his block now continues his remaining movement of his Blitz Action and uses one movement allowance to move next to the prone Basil, he cannot anymore use his Piling On, as the armour roll and injury roll has already passed. His block has ended and his movement has again begun.
To get around Basil's Fending, I see Abel as having two ways, that others have already also mentioned: the way of a Minotaur and the way of a Dwarf, namely the Juggernaut and Grab skills.
Lets say that Abel skills up again and decides to pursue Juggernaut. Now the scenario 3 changes into following:
4) Abel declares a Blitz Action. Abel takes a couple of moves and appears next to Basil. Now Abel changes one of his moves to throwing of a block. Abel rolls POW (lucky git) and Basil is Pushed Back. Abel decides to use his Juggernaut to prevent Basil from using his Fend. Abel then Follows Up and Basil is Knocked Down and Placed Prone. Abel now rolls the armour roll while standing next to Basils prone body. Roll result is 5, so Abel uses his Piling On to be Placed Prone and rerolling the armour to a roll 10, which goes through. Nicely done, Abel!
Juggernaut has the drawback that in order to use it, the player has to have declared your team's Blitz Action of current turn. Since there are only one Blitz Action per turn, rest of the Fenders might get away. Here in picture comes the skill Grab. Lets say that Abel has decided to get Grab as his second skill, now the scenario 2 becomes following:
5) Abel declares a Block Action. Now Abel can throw a block on Basil. He rolls POW, and Basil is Pushed Back, and decides to use Fend. Now Abel uses his Grab skill and Pushes Back Basil directly to the left of Basil, a square which is also adjacent to Abel. Now Abel cannot Follow Up and is left to his original square but it doesn't matter as Abel is still adjacent to the Knocked Down and Placed Prone Basil. Abel now rolls the armour roll while standing next to Basils prone body. Roll result is 5, so Abel uses his Piling On to be Placed Prone and rerolling the armour to a roll 10, which goes through. Well done!
I hope these scenarios were useful for your bashing tactics!
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@GeneralMarauder:
Its not you or the LRB6 that is a bit akward, its me. Quite same sequence can be figured for the current LRB4. In reality they both are quite straightforward. The computer executes the complete complicated sequence, so the player only makes the choices and enjoys of the results. |
Last edited by uuni on %b %22, %2010 - %13:%Sep; edited 2 times in total |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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Sep 22, 2010 - 13:24 |
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| Carnis wrote: | | Alibaba wrote: | so... true killer player is player with...
Claw, mb, po, juggernaut, block, tackle and Grab ? |
Yes, but you need frenzy, pro, horns, jump up too. Too bad you can only get 6 skills, and grab and frenzy aren't allowed on the same player.
I think what Claw has is pretty close to optimal. Could only add juggernaut + jump up, if the skill-limit wasn't already reached. |
it's quite amazing to see what regen and nerfing dp did to wolves' life expectancy... |
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f_alk
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
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Sep 22, 2010 - 14:17 |
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| uuni wrote: | Lets say that Abel has decided to get Grab as his second skill...
5) Abel declares a Block Action. |
I emphasized this.
To prevent fending:
- Juggernaut works with Blitz Actions only
- Grab works with Block Actions only
Don't wonder when you blitz with a Grabber, and the Fender gets away. |
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