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Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 02, 2015 - 22:17 Reply with quote Back to top

The Road to the NAF Championship 2015 is in the books (bar a few short extensions), and what a six weeks it was! This thread is our wrap-up / request for feedback. Please feel free to post whether you played in the RTTNAFC or not!

Winners

Champion – straume (wins a ticket to the NAFC)
Stunty Cup – Zed (wins a Stunty Cup trophy, pictures to follow!)
Raffle winner – m0gw41 (wins the NAFC free gifts. Pictures to follow when we know what they’ll be!)

Final Runner-up – Diceskill
2nd Place – cedric19
3rd Place – Jokaero (no physical prizes for these three, but props for great performances!)

Thanks

Our (Joemanji, geggster and my) thanks are due to everyone who helped make this event happen. Primarily, Christer and Kalimar have put many hours in updating the site and the client, and it simply wouldn’t have happened without them working so hard. Thanks to the NAF committee for letting us do it in the first place and getting behind the FUMBBL crossover, for the advertising from Sann, testing from mubo and thebeanbag, and to everyone who has contributed fluff and commentary as we’ve gone along on both this forum and others across the Interweb. I’m sure you’ll join me in /clap-ing everyone who got involved in one way or another.

Feedback

As you know, this is the first of an ongoing run of NAF events online, so we’re interested in your feedback for next time! There are areas we’re specifically interested in and areas we’re currently not so worried about, so in the interests of giving you a target and alleviating concerns up front, we’d specifically like to know what you think about:

1. Length of rounds. Is a week optimal? Would you play a ‘traditional’ NAF weekend tournament (3 games per day over a weekend)?

2. Communication. Was the level of advertising about right? Is there anything we have missed with regards to letting you know the event is starting / how it’s going?

3. Did you enjoy yourselves? If so why (and if not, why not)?

4. Are you / do you know a NAF TO who is interested in partnering with us in the future to run a sister online event (with or without physical prizes)? As we look to fill our tournament pipeline, we’d like to partner with events from across the NAF world.

And things we think got covered for now:

1. Tiered / more intricate rulesets. It’s certainly our intent to get there eventually, but the coding takes time and it’s good to have a baseline. Remember we’re only one tournament in, we’ll get there!

2. Formats. A 254 coach 6 round Swiss was a great ‘big splash’ way to begin, but we are aware it’s perhaps not the optimal format to use every time. We know other ways of doing things exist, and we’ve got exciting things lined up!

3. Timezone concerns. We know that coaches made a special effort for the RTTNAFC (or perhaps didn’t enter knowing they’d be committed to 6 games, potentially with coaches on the other side of the world). There are plans afoot to make your scheduling easier in the future

What’s Next?

We hope you’re hungry for more, I know that I am!

We’re going to have a short, designed pause to collect this feedback and set up tournament #2, but it won’t be too long. Our aim is to kickoff towards the end of March, provisionally the 23rd or 30th, and you should expect the hype machine to begin a fortnight before we start. Expect some more cracking Blood Bowl action very soon!

Our team are working at the online ranking variant. It’s not a straightforward bit of work, so please be patient with us. I’ll update you as soon as I possibly can.

Thanks again to everyone that got involved and played in the RTTNAFC. I had a blast, hope you did too. Smile

_________________
NAF TD.


Last edited by Purplegoo on Mar 02, 2015 - 23:26; edited 1 time in total
Xeterog



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 02, 2015 - 22:49 Reply with quote Back to top

1. Length of rounds. Is a week optimal? Would you play a ‘traditional’ NAF weekend tournament (3 games per day over a weekend)?

A week was good, and allowed for most scheduling conflicts. I would play a traditional weekend tourney.


2. Communication. Was the level of advertising about right? Is there anything we have missed with regards to letting you know the event is starting / how it’s going?

I think the communications went above and beyond what was needed.

3. Did you enjoy yourselves? If so why (and if not, why not)?

very much enjoyed the tourney.

4. Are you / do you know a NAF TO who is interested in partnering with us in the future to run a sister online event (with or without physical prizes)? As we look to fill our tournament pipeline, we’d like to partner with events from across the NAF world.

No, sorry Sad

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- Xeterog
Tripleskull



Joined: Oct 12, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 02, 2015 - 23:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Except for the small issues with the format and the NAFC rules I only have praise to give.

It's great to be playing on fumbbl and the tournament has been run perfectly.

I think you should avoid the several teams with perfect records in the future when an extra round or whatever is so easily done on-line.

My personal distaste for "plain" blood bowl rules is mostly irrelevant here so I'l not go in to that issue.

Other than that I only have two major grievances. Firstly my bad tactical choices against Diceskill and secondly how is "end of March" "not too long"?!? Crying or Very sad
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 02, 2015 - 23:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Congrats to Goo and the team.

I wasn't able to participate (as I am a noob), but I enjoyed watching the action. This NAF/Fummbl collaboration really is the WAY FORWARD, and I look forward to putting my NAF record (such as it is) on the line in future tournaments.

All HAIL!!

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Wotfudboy



Joined: Feb 17, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 02, 2015 - 23:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Thoroughly well organised and spot on all round. As its digital an easier to do than in real life tournaments it would be great to crunch the numbers and see all the players who sparkled across 6 games... Best of race maybe... Reward the race variation... And even some cool unique stats for which player died the most, etc
Maybe a prize for best themed team... You can't choose best painted can you!

One week is typical for most Fumbbl leagues I've participated in so all good for me.
Communication was good too. Clear deadlines. Clear rules.
Tournament was challenging... More difficult to chat... But easier to hide smugness when the dice roll for you, and you offend your oppo less by cursing loudly at your screen but not typing it! So online he's its benefits... And there's none of this "oh where was I, I lost count" rubbish you can get in face to face games. All in all enjoyable.
I'm merely a sheep in the herd.... Take me to more green pastures oh shepherds of bloodbowl...

Sincerest thanks to all those who made this possible.

_________________
See my blog: http://wotfudboy.blogspot.co.uk/.
OBBA, OWCC, WIBBL.
PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 03, 2015 - 00:15 Reply with quote Back to top

I really enjoyed the tournament and top marks for how the entire tournament was set up behind the scenes on FUMBBL and how the admin team made it run smoothly.

Here are my 2 cents to ponder, contemplate and print them out and use them as a butt wipe. Very Happy

1:The Table Top experience, for me, cannot be replicated on FUMBBL. The entire experience is the being there in person, having fun with fellow Blood Bowlers and playing a lot of matches. The game itself is just the excuse we use to our wives and girlfriends on why we are hanging out for 2 days drinking and having fun.
That is totally lost on FUMBBL.

2: That being said this format has so many directions it could go on FUMBBL. One idea just off the top of the head. Bring back the FUMBBL Tour, Table Top style.

3: Doing weekend tournaments of 4-6 matches seems like a natural way to go BUT I disagree. The culture on FUMBBL is one week rounds and so forth. This is the internet, we are not trapped in a big conference room where we paid money to play 6 games over 2 days.

4:Expanding TV ranges changes up the tactics and strategy of team building. Also it makes it more fun because it is not just rinse and repeat the same TV 1100 format with 3/6 skills. Heck why not have a tourney were all races MUST pick only mutations as their skill ups? as an example.

Bottom line for me.

FUMBBL is weak on the main reason we all show up and play in these 6 round 2 day tournaments.
At the same time its strength is that it has a format to make the actual game we play at those events so much more fun than just 1100 TV, pick 3/6 skills and hope the dice up good.

I look forward to the second instalment of this format.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 03, 2015 - 00:33 Reply with quote Back to top

A great job by Purplegoo & the staff.

My opinions...

1. Make it a 'Tour' with an end of year final. e.g. top 40/50.
Maybe also a division 2 or 3 final for the next 50 etc.
Would need to be able to miss an event due to work/holiday or try a 'fun' team.
3/4 out of 5 or 6 events count?

2. Some events with different start TV + more skills.

3 Regionals by time zone.

4. Personally I think that who goes to the final should be decided by w/l/d not cas & TDs. Playoffs?

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Secret League Shield - 16 Team KO - Thursday 18th Jan - 1500TW
happygrue



Joined: Oct 15, 2010

Post   Posted: Mar 03, 2015 - 00:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Feedback

1. Length of rounds. Is a week optimal? Would you play a ‘traditional’ NAF weekend tournament (3 games per day over a weekend)?

That depends on timezone issue, but since I would *guess* that off-timezone people (like myself) are going to enter in events not designed for their timezone I think it is still important to think about. I play in some two week deadline things, and while I like the pace I do NOT think anything that slow would work well for any kind of swiss NAF event, though it might be okay for knockout. I think one week is reasonable but it is far FAR better to start the timer earlier in the week than later. For example, Monday to Monday is great, Friday to Friday is terrible for anyone trying to schedule from an off timezone.

2. Communication. Was the level of advertising about right? Is there anything we have missed with regards to letting you know the event is starting / how it’s going?

Just right. I don't think there can be "too much" advance notice of these things, so adding some redundant blogs and such beforehand might be a good idea, but after kickoff I thought communication was perfect.

3. Did you enjoy yourselves? If so why (and if not, why not)?

I did! It was a blast. I wish I'd done better, and I wish I'd drawn more folks with weekend availability, but that was something I risked when I signed up. My opponents were all great fun and worked hard to find a time that worked. Big thanks to all the organizers and assorted people large and small who made this happen!

4. Are you / do you know a NAF TO who is interested in partnering with us in the future to run a sister online event (with or without physical prizes)? As we look to fill our tournament pipeline, we’d like to partner with events from across the NAF world.

No I don't, but it might be worth reaching out to some of the larger tournament organizers in their various regions just to give them a heads up that this is now a thing and to let them ponder the various options that exist now...

We hope you’re hungry for more, I know that I am!

Yes, looking forward to it!

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giorss



Joined: Nov 22, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 03, 2015 - 01:03 Reply with quote Back to top

the format is the nafc, ok, but applied to a so big tourney (254!) is a problem
8 round plus final maybe could be better
tiebreaker: cas =1; Td =1 ... ok still nafc, but it brings you to choose cas teams.
UD were at the top, impossible for elves and some tactical teams.
I hope next NAF online will have more rounds (9? more?) and maybe opponent score as 1st tiebreaker.
I played all matches as training, since zonnies are not my favourite race and it was 1st time on naf tourneys, and I found the tourney very interesting.
I liked and anjoyed the tourney so much, I can't wait for another naf online tourney.
I hope even this way of play could be extended to L
I'd like to train me for the next world cup in lucca!

If someone wants to play a test match against me with WC 2015 format I'm glad to play Smile please pm!!!!!

btw great job Mike, Purplegoo and Joe! well done! It was a very good start for NAF online

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Dalfort



Joined: Jun 23, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 03, 2015 - 01:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Firstly thanks for staging this event and I am glad it was such the success it was.

Purplegoo wrote:
Feedback

As you know, this is the first of an ongoing run of NAF events online, so we’re interested in your feedback for next time! There are areas we’re specifically interested in and areas we’re currently not so worried about, so in the interests of giving you a target and alleviating concerns up front, we’d specifically like to know what you think about:

1. Length of rounds. Is a week optimal? Would you play a ‘traditional’ NAF weekend tournament (3 games per day over a weekend)?

2. Communication. Was the level of advertising about right? Is there anything we have missed with regards to letting you know the event is starting / how it’s going?

3. Did you enjoy yourselves? If so why (and if not, why not)?

4. Are you / do you know a NAF TO who is interested in partnering with us in the future to run a sister online event (with or without physical prizes)? As we look to fill our tournament pipeline, we’d like to partner with events from across the NAF world.


1. Length of Rounds. I personally would like to go to the more traditional TT 1 or 2 Day event style, weekly deadlines is the premise of already established Official FUMBBL Tournaments and perhaps there should be some distinction between the two arenas.

2. Communication. It was certainly prolific but left no grey areas for misunderstandings so great job.

3. Enjoyment. I felt it dragged on but then I am not a regular (online) Tournament player and interestingly that may have something to do with why on the rare occasion I make it past Round 1 of a Tournament my game is radically different than the win... But I do like Swiss set-up and Resurrection style events.

4. NAF TO. I am not and those I know are more than capable of speaking up themselves. Contructively; can any NAF member become a TO? Is there a link to the NAF site which gives details of the process?

Hope that helps to form an overall picture with everyone else's thoughts and comments.

Take care Dalfort

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straume



Joined: Dec 01, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 03, 2015 - 08:31 Reply with quote Back to top

1. Length of rounds.

For me this format is perfect. Spending a whole weekend at the computer is tricky to negotiate with a family, and could actually undermine participation in TT-tourneys. How many whole weekends can one use for BB only? So in my opinion doing the tournament over a weekend is a bad idea. Weekly rounds? Perfect. The only change I would make is that we play 6 rounds and then have a final as the only match in Round7 (as I think Flix suggested). This would remove, or at last half, the problem of too many perfect teams. And perhaps 5-1-0 could be good enough to reach the final. In my rounds 4 and 5 I was lucky to win the toss, and being 1-0 up at half time is just such a huge advantage when everyone is really only looking for the win.

2. Communication: Awesome. Posted more or less everywhere. Also great fun to read Purplegoo`s picks during the tournament. Thumbs up for that.

3. Enjoyment. Awesome. I am new (or returning) and one point I would like to make is that the replay should show the comments made. This commenting "behind the back" of the players really incentivates (is that a word?) badmouthing the players. Not that I have any complaints, this is just a general point. Also it is good fun to see how people discusses the match. I really loved the "Does Zombies suck?"-discussion during the final.
straume



Joined: Dec 01, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 03, 2015 - 08:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Perhaps a bit on the side but I would love to see a "Tour"-system with rankings. Similar to the ATP (tennis) with X Grand Slams, Y Majors and Z Minors during a year. Only change would be that the points should last for two years (not cumulative for same player and same tournament). To give some space for IRL, after all Blood Bowl, does not pay the bills.

Example:

Flix wins a Grand Slam in 2015. He gets 1000 points.
Flix is runner up in the same Grand Slam in 2016. He gets no more points, but the Runnner up is worth 750.
In 2017 Flix can`t play this tournament due to RL. He has now 750 points.
In 2018 Flix has quit Bloodbowl and does play this year either! He now loses his points for this particular tournament.

I get that this probably is way too late to pitch in, but would be cool Smile
Roland



Joined: May 12, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 03, 2015 - 09:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Wouldn't a King of the Hill format be better for these online tournaments?
It is some kind of crossover of KO and swiss, right?
Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 03, 2015 - 09:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Dalfort, anyone can become a NAF TT TO, they just need to be willing to put the work in! If you have an idea, the best person to contact is your regional or national TO. In your case, I think that's Don Dave / Joe.

grue, on that (point 4), have no fear.

straume, spec chat is a funny old thing, and something that is a FUMBBL, not an online NAF, thing. Personally, I love it, and (so long as no common decency lines are crossed) I don't mind that people are 'honest'; no one coaches better than when they are spectating. I think if games are to be recorded, people might want to bear in mind in future that their comments might end up on the Internet somewhere, but I don't remember anything bad in the final.

Other than that, thanks for the replies so far! Just a reminder that we think we've got formats covered, and that rulesets will come with time. Other than that, keep it coming!

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NAF TD.
mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 03, 2015 - 09:51
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

Well, I guess someone has to give some negative feedback at some point, right?

For a start I'll say that it's nothing to do with the Staff or FUMBBL, the organisation and communication have both been excellent. I think it comes down to me as a player.

As with most FUMBBL players I have various time commitments. I organise my FUMBBL playing time and decide what I can commit to. When you enter a tournament for 6 weeks (and especially if the next one is starting in March) then you are no longer competing in a tournament; you're playing in a league. This directly competes with my favourite aspect of FUMBBL. However, unlike in a League, in the NAF games you can very often have nothing to play for after the first 2/3 games whereas a league team would be skilling players, playing old rivals etc.

It might be different for NAF members, but for just a regular FUMBBL bod I didn't really have anything to play for after the first 2 rounds, other than honour and position. I skipped both of FUMBBLs January Majors because I didn't have time, and also the last Minor (that I wanted to compete in) because I'd still got 2 NAF games to play.

I don't really know a way around this. I would suggest the single weekend format, but I know I wouldn't play in that either. I think for a tournament to work (for me) online then I either have to be playing for something or out. Maybe it would be possible in future to have a golf-like 'cut' of teams below a certain record, or an opt-out after so many rounds?

Thanks for running it guys, it's been interesting and the games have been entertaining Smile
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