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Joined: Feb 18, 2020

Post   Posted: Feb 18, 2020 - 00:54 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm playing in an online league. It's my first league every and I am on the end of my second season so I've only got about 15 games in so you might say I'm a total noob in comparison to the coaches here.

I finished 2nd in the league and during the playoffs I lost a Saurus. I've lost a Skink in each of the two games beforehand and immediately bought a replacement after each death. So I'm currently sitting on 20k gold (Rolled a 1 in winnings). I'm unsure of how my game plan should look in the following games.
My team consists of:
Kroxi with Guard.
Saurus with Block and MB
Saurus with Block
Saurus with +STR
2x unskilled Saurus.
Skink with +MA and Catch
Skink with Sidestep
2x unskilled Skinks
3 rerolls.

Additional questions:
I feel silly for replacing the dead skinks, should I have saved up cash in case I'll need to replace a Saurus?

I used my Apothecary a few turns before the death on a Saurus that got "Badly Hurt" just to have him back on the next drive. Should I have saved it in case someone got injured? It was the second half, around turn 11. They(High Elves) were having a bit of a hard time on the offense(I had horrible luck after brilliant play that got my skinks the ball) and it was 1-0 in my favor.

I'd love some tips on how to use the Apothecary, as I feel like he's ineffective in all my games.

Joined: May 23, 2019

Post   Posted: Feb 18, 2020 - 01:46 Reply with quote Back to top

My view is that the Apo is there for permanent injuries and kills on your valuable players only. I'd hardly ever use it on Badly Hurts, you just have to wear the loss for the rest of the game, even if it hurts a little. As you've found out, it can bite you when a few turns later someone is killed or-ST. The only exceptions I've made to this in a the last hundred games is either when I've had an extra Apo due to inducments, or ( in my last game vs Chaos Renegades) my Krox was BH in the first half and I figured I really needed him to hold the line vs the S6 Ogre/Troll/Mino etc. That was a gamble and I was nervous to the end.

So my advice is to keep the Apo only for key players, and then only for serious injuries or kills. I've had games when the Apo has not been used and linemen have died, but that's a better outcome for me than the time I used the Apo on a Lineman with Kick and then had a Blitzer die. Who you define as a key player is up to you.

Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 18, 2020 - 01:50 Reply with quote Back to top

I frequently use the apo on badly hurts for 2 reasons. Firstly it automatically works, while it often does no help on other injuries and is effectively wasted anyway. Secondly as you say it gets him back for the rest of the match. Which may help prevent you get outnumbered and more hurt.

However a lot of the key players I have lost are after I have used apo on a badly hurt. Still I think overall you should try to win the match at hand. I regret doing that a bit with my humans as I had a really important superstar I lost that maybe apo could have saved. Similarly with Ogres when I used a apo on a badly hurt superstar and then he died in the same match (164 spp). Maybe if you have a team with one key player keep it for him. But there are not many teams with just 1 key player. Plus in your case after turn 11 against Elves an injury to a Saurus can't have been that likely.

I don't think spending money replacing skinks was a bad idea. If you ran with loners you may lose a match due to not being able to use a rr on them.

Play some games on fumbbl! Smile Usually tough competition, but fun and you will learn.

A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.

Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 18, 2020 - 01:55 Reply with quote Back to top

I think you will find Felix's view the most common. As obviously people spend months and even years developing players. Though as on that other thread about the Chaos Minotaur skillup things like dead-apo-dead happen regularly.

MNG must be the worst result to use it on as there is 50% chance of being no benefit.

A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.

Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Feb 18, 2020 - 02:03 Reply with quote Back to top

This is a league so apoth considerations are as follows:

1. Am I in a position to win the league/make playoffs?
2. Do I need to win this game?

If you are simply building your team, you can eat losses and ties for future development, and sit on your apothecary to preserve the team for future seasons. This is far from foolproof, as you will often find that not apothing injuries early leads to more and worse injuries later. The apoth roll is 4+ for mng+ and far from guaranteed after all.

If you are trying to win now, then apoth on the first BH on a key positional (or even on a KO if circumstances dictate) in h1, or a KO in H2 (assuming one drive) is simply proper play. Obviously it may have consequences for future games if players are permanently removed later, but we discard that. If the goal is winning purely, then player lives are not sancrosanct.

I may not have replaced the skinks personally - loner skinks are absolutely fine and do the job you need (get in the way or draw blitzes, foul etc).

Basically use your apoth in a manner that compliments your objectives - it is often possible to skip apoth use and win, but that's a judgement call too. There's no prizes for building a stellar team that never wins.


Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 18, 2020 - 12:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Apoth rolls are the worst dice rolling dynamic in the current game. And rival natural one turners for the thing i'd change first.

As ArrestedDevlopment said, its SO situational how to use them best, and is totally tied into the meta of what you want from that game and team (and who you're facing, and what race, and are you winning, or going to win, and is it first half or second and, and, and), always bearing in mind saving them for pixel hugging best player cover makes them like a one shot regen, 50% chance to actually work.

The easier question is should you have bought the replacement skinks.

No, you should not.

to return to 12, maybe, but to return to 11 players, with a team ina league that needs to be effective every game, I'd eant cash in bank to cover Saurus loss before I wasted it on turning a loner skink into a rookie skink.

As a sie note, your Sauruses urgently need a Break Tackle one. Ideally with tackle too.

Barbarus hic ego sum quia non intelligor ulli
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 18, 2020 - 12:22 Reply with quote Back to top

+1 to AD and PC.
When I play Lizardmen I generally use my Apothecary on BH Saurus in first half and sometimes on KO, for example if it's second half.
In a league Apothecary use may vary, but always remember that using it on a SI or Death could fail, so, first consider if it could be better to save the Apothecary to heal/keep on pitch a BH/KO Saurus.
Also, consider that, if you save enough gold, and you have a MNG Saurus, you could hire a Mercenary Saurus in the next game.

Ceterum censeo Classificatam esse delendam.

Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Feb 18, 2020 - 21:08 Reply with quote Back to top

...I guess that if he's playing in a league it doesn't belong to Matt, but oh well Smile

Yep, if you want to develop your team, keep the apo and hope it works when it's needed - I wouldn't use it on a BH. Some matches are just downhill, you'll do better in the next game!

"la virtú sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"


Joined: Feb 18, 2020

Post   Posted: Feb 18, 2020 - 23:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for the tips guys. That was the semi-finals of the playoffs and I lost due to bullshit luck, so I feel like using the Apo there made sense(Prioritized winning the game over developing team). In the future I'll probably be more conservative, as losing the game and having your players survive is more fun than losing the game and having your players die.

I do need Break Tackle but Block is just so crucial, I try to pair up my saurus so they both can't be tied down but my oppo did abuse that a bit in our last game.

I'll try to keep a cash buffer for Saurus from now on. That's solid advice.
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