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ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 13, 2021 - 10:03 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
I agree that having 6 skill slots and not being able to build a decent player up to 6 skills looks weird. With a hand GW allows progression, with the other hand it hampers it.
I think that either the ruleset should have been made with the aim to play low TV BB many different races (some rosters start with many skills and are clearly better) or let people develop their teams, without making them too powerful. No clawmb spam, no super stat freaks etc.
This could have been achieved, I guess, by capping the MA to 9 (they did it), capping the stat boosts to max +1 per characteristic, introducing a max TV cap (somewhere between 1800-2000), and maybe reducing the skill slots from 6 to 5 or 4. No Season Redraft.
That would have encouraged less lopsided teams, instead of Stars & scrubs teams.
Random skill up is not a terrible idea but poorly made, in my opinion.
A better system could have been randomizing 2 skills and picking 1. Still random but there is a slightly increased chance to get a skill you can use with that player.

That said, it's possible, with BB2020, to use all the 6 skill slots, but you must take many random skills. With 46 SPPs, if you take all random skills, you can have a Legend. Yes, he will be a weird Legend with random skills, but he will use all the skill slots.


The SWL has been running Seasons for a while now (since the Client went to BB2016) and our season length is 7 games (short) and we have various budgets for re-drafting based on the division you're in.

However, one team has managed to have one player for 120 games and has paid his retirement fees each season. Impak (https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=12205794) has been a huge legend of a player in the SWL and has only been retired as the SWL is now moving to 2020.

His Orc team has been competitive and in the Premier division and is a classic example of the "one man team". It is possible, it just comes at a cost...

Again, not my taste, but the guy who coaches this team got a huge thrill from having the best ever SWL player in the BB2016 era.
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Oct 13, 2021 - 13:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Alien_the_Alien wrote:

Master of Destiny itself (100k, requires the Favored of Tzeentch special rule). Once per game, at the beginning of your turn, you can decide to let Tzeetch decide the fate of your players. Your next rolls will be, in that precise order: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6


First roll 1 second roll 2 is a turnover unless you're doing a foul, or something on a 2+ that you have a reroll for, or a big guy activation. Nice idea though.

I'm not very optimistic about the impact of the Favoured of... rules, I really hope to be wrong.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 13, 2021 - 13:34 Reply with quote Back to top

[quote="Java"]
Alien_the_Alien wrote:

I'm not very optimistic about the impact of the Favoured of... rules, I really hope to be wrong.


It would be nice if Favoured of anything but Nurgle mattered. At the moment Nurgle have a great wizard and Nurglings. From the rules there is no point in taking any other option.

At least if there are some other inducements there is an actual choice to make.
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 13, 2021 - 13:34 Reply with quote Back to top

I would really love Favoured of Khorne to be players on the team are allowed to take Mighty Blow twice giving them a +2 to break armor or injure.
Alien_the_Alien



Joined: Apr 22, 2020

Post   Posted: Oct 13, 2021 - 13:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Java wrote:
Alien_the_Alien wrote:

Master of Destiny itself (100k, requires the Favored of Tzeentch special rule). Once per game, at the beginning of your turn, you can decide to let Tzeetch decide the fate of your players. Your next rolls will be, in that precise order: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6


First roll 1 second roll 2 is a turnover unless you're doing a foul, or something on a 2+ that you have a reroll for, or a big guy activation. Nice idea though.



Yeah that was the idea, since you know the rolls, you can optimize everything. So let's say you're playing a chaos team with an ogre - bonehead fails, here goes the 1. Then you just need a player with two heads, extra arms or a built in reroll. Can even be a Pro: you perform a gratuitous 3+ dodge that you fail, here goes the 2. Then you use Pro, which is a 3+ now. Here goes the 3. THe dodge works, here goes the 4. You're left with a 5 and a 6.

Or even better. You activate your ogre, fails with a one. Use a reroll - the 2 is wasted on the loner. Now you have 3, 4, 5, 6.

The key is to find a way to get rid of the "bad" then average rolls till you get to the good stuff. It feels very Tzeentch-y in my opinion because you're doing nonsensical moves at the beginning of your turn just so you can do that apparently extremely improbable 4+5+6+ series of rolls at the end... It requires extra planning and a good understanding of the rules.

But yeah I know nothing like that is going to happen. We're going to get rather basic stuff, like extra modifiers and that kind of things.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 13, 2021 - 15:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Tzeentch special rule could be having Pro on all players for one turn, once per game.
This is better. According to the fluff, Tzeentch is the changer of fate and reality.
Pro properly represents the "Fortune of Tzeentch".
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 03:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Java wrote:
Catalyst32 wrote:
You sound like a sociopath.


You sound like a lovely chap.



p.s. the existence of 300 matches old min-maxed teams in an open environment does impact how others (that don't agree with that) play the game, because they have to face those teams, either by scheduling or by tournament draft Rolling Eyes



I AM a lovely chap and everyone that has ever met me knows that.

But NO. You did not EVER have to play those High TV teams.
You did not have to play in the Majors or any of the High TV Tournaments.
And you did not have to be MATCHED with any of those High TV teams because you could have always cut you r team down to a size that the matches in the scheduler would be IMPOSSIBLE.


YOU are confusing the issue.
I never spoke if min-miaxed teams... only of High TV teams.

And you must be DAFT if you don't realize that what the SEASONS rules are going to do to ALL of the teams you will face in Blood Bowl.
They will ALL be Min-Maxed Teams because ALL TEAMS will have to be trimmed down and trimmed down to be the most efficient team they can be.

EVERY TEAM YOU FACE WILL BE A MIN-MAX TEAM.
I guess you don't understand how good you had it before and you don't understand that you are now being forced to play in a way you apparently don't enjoy also.
Yet YOU think I am the 1 with the problem. Rolling Eyes
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 03:36 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
Catalyst32 wrote:

And you say I sound like a Purist?
I sound like someone who has had their hobby and all the time they have put into it RUINED.
If I built model planes... they were all just smashed or thrown into the trash.


This is a league issue. Your problem is with the Fumbbl Competitive division.

Leagues have always had their ways of dealing with "too big" teams if they wished too.

The league commissioner can disable seasons, change the parameters, add more cash, have more or fewer games, impose TV/TW limits etc. etc. etc.

This particular problem is not the rules.



No time to played scheduled games and too few matches available in League for OPEN play. I will do my best to carry on.
The Hours I must work in my profession make it impossible to play in any of the European Leagues and the prime time of American Leagues.
I will have to check into SWL again.... but I'm pretty sure that will not work either.

My only option really is to play among the Competitive Division when I can find a couple hours here and there.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 03:49 Reply with quote Back to top

tussock wrote:
Catalyst32 wrote:
It is ridiculous to say that a game that made room for every single player to eventually have 6 or 7 skills which would eventually lead to teams at such high levels was not designed to be played that high.
It implies you believe they expected the game to be something nobody would want to play for more than 3 or 4 games before quitting.
It implies you don't have any concept of what Star Players, Bribes other types of inducements are for.
It implies you don't really know the game very well.



The game was designed, from day 1, to stop you having a team full of skilled players. It's got "blood" in the name, eh. They had team expenses that skyrocketed with your total spp.

DP was +2 to armour and +2 to injury, on a table where 12 was dead, and it stacked with stuff. When they toned that down they added automatic injuries to players when they skilled up. When they toned that down again they added CPOMB and 2+ Lightning Bolt.

It went through iterations where skills never stacked on the way, couldn't even use Block and Mighty Blow on the same turn.

When they removed CPOMB and 2+ LB they added seasons, and players just leaving the team after a while, five years ago!

What they've added to seasons this update is more injuries and shorter player life before they leave!

Blood bowl has always tried to stop you having a team full of skilled players. It was called the rule of five during CPOMB, and even they regularly died to Lightning Bolt.

--

The similar game running on fumbbl for the last few years is a house ruled version without any of the player removal rules, or any of the other rules that punish big teams.

It's not like that in any published edition. Ever. Welcome to blood bowl, your pixels will not be here forever.



Yet... somehow Teams could still grow large.

What they have done is mandated Coaches sacrifice their players during the Blood Moon or some other Random Holiday or whatever.
Perfectly healthy players.

You don't seem to understand the issue either.
No one here is complaining about players being Killed, Injured, Aging, Niggling etc etc etc
So your nonsense in that regard is not constructive or useful.
tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 05:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Everyone complained about ageing, and then everyone complained about CPOMB.

There was literally a ban on complaining about CPOMB outside the CPOMB complaints thread, which was thousands of pages of people complaining about CPOMB.

Will people now complain about seasons? Of course they will! Congratulations on being among the great many who will.

--

Now, there is absolutely nothing stopping you building a 2000 TV equivalent team in C division off BB20's 1350 rebuys. Your skills can be half cost, and you can avoid taking them until after rebuy, and you no longer add TV for Fan Factor, and the income rate allows any team to buy a long bench and as many RRs as they want in 15 games.

Income is like 80k per game, that's 1200k income!

So the only thing you're missing is ...

https://fumbbl.com/p/team?id=656972

That crap. A bunch of old linemen slowly accumulating more Guard, Stand Firm, and Mighty Blow. What fun, that is to play. So good, just endless enjoyment, as you can see by the 5 games a year they got to play.

--

Funny how when the average TV of teams in the fumbbl cup final drifted up from 2100 to 2400 after CPOMB and 2+ LB vanished, but seasons never appeared to replace them, way less people actually played in the fumbbl cup, eh.

Despite fumbbl being quite popular at times, with the box trophy and stuff, where everyone played like 15 games with teams. Which is more than the actual average games played by quite a bit.

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stej



Joined: Jan 05, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 09:02 Reply with quote Back to top

But back to that khorne roster hey. Frenzy all over. Do you need more guard than usual here?
C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 10:45 Reply with quote Back to top

More guard that usual? Is that possible? Guard on all is the default, right?
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 14:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:

I AM a lovely chap and everyone that has ever met me knows that.

Then I am probably missing out. That loveliness doesn't percolate from the constant stream of snide remarks, putdowns and insults.

Do you often offer free psychiatric assessment to people you disagree with?

Quote:

But NO. You did not EVER have to play those High TV teams.


Excuse me, but you are plainly wrong. The scheduler can't be avoided if one wanted to play box. Past 30 matches you are fair game to 1.8-2.5mil teams that were not intended to exist in the ruleset. And a team that got to 1.5-1.8 within a normal run is no match for a fine tuned monster team or min-max team after hundreds of games.

It's also not something the rules ever accounted for.

Quote:

You did not have to play in the Majors or any of the High TV Tournaments.


Oh yeah, if you don't like it here, go away, that old canard. Careful, it can be aimed at you too.

Quote:

And you did not have to be MATCHED with any of those High TV teams because you could have always cut you r team down to a size that the matches in the scheduler would be IMPOSSIBLE.


Tell me you don't know how the scheduler work without telling me you don't know how the scheduler works.


Quote:

And you must be DAFT blablabla


Ok, that was nice of you, no need to continue. There are people who can't disagree with someone without calling them names.

I'm not gonna argue with you about the competitive side of this site since you haven't played here for years. Your opinions, if they ever had value, are grossly outdated. Take care.
mekutata



Joined: May 03, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 15:02 Reply with quote Back to top

People will at some point research about Khorne and stumble over this thread and all they will get is three pages about someone's personal distaste with the new ruleset.

So Gits, can you spam your complaints about BB20 somewhere else or shall every topic about BB 20 related news end up like this? It's a forum and this thread has a topic. Feel free to post one about your TV concepts. I am sure if you'd dedicate enough time you find enough coaches to play in your preferred custom meta.

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Grasshugger17



Joined: Jun 29, 2020

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 16:27 Reply with quote Back to top

mekutata wrote:
People will at some point research about Khorne and stumble over this thread and all they will get is three pages about someone's personal distaste with the new ruleset.

So Gits, can you spam your complaints about BB20 somewhere else or shall every topic about BB 20 related news end up like this? It's a forum and this thread has a topic. Feel free to post one about your TV concepts. I am sure if you'd dedicate enough time you find enough coaches to play in your preferred custom meta.


It's good entertainment when I'm bored.
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