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Rawlf



Joined: Jul 15, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 15:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Normally, SPP hoarding would come at the cost of having to play your next opponent without the skills you could have chosen or rolled up. In an environment where every match counts, this can be a considerable drawback.
In [C]'s world of TV matched, perpetual one-off games, this effect is lost fully and SPP hoarding effectively encouraged.

This is what I tried to hint to in the other tread: changes to one aspect of the rules (matchmaking) have repercussions to all other aspects of the rules and how they work (skill progression).
So SPP hoarding is more of a FUMBBL thing, much less a BB20 rules thing.
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 15:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Rawlf wrote:
Normally, SPP hoarding would come at the cost of having to play your next opponent without the skills you could have chosen or rolled up. In an environment where every match counts, this can be a considerable drawback.
In [C]'s world of TV matched, perpetual one-off games, this effect is lost fully and SPP hoarding effectively encouraged.

This is what I tried to hint to in the other tread: changes to one aspect of the rules (matchmaking) have repercussions to all other aspects of the rules and how they work (skill progression).
So SPP hoarding is more of a FUMBBL thing, much less a BB20 rules thing.


Absolutely. And that's why games-played-in-a-season matchmaking is better than TV matchmaking.

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mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 16:49
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Wouldn’t Games played matching just force everyone to horde SPPs or be at a large disadvantage? At least with TV matching you’d be playing against teams build in roughly the same way yours was.

Which is not to say I’m for or against either system, just an observation

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RedFish



Joined: Dec 04, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 16:57 Reply with quote Back to top

mister__joshua wrote:
Wouldn’t Games played matching just force everyone to horde SPPs or be at a large disadvantage? At least with TV matching you’d be playing against teams build in roughly the same way yours was.

Which is not to say I’m for or against either system, just an observation


Wouldn't you be at a disadvantage late in a season, where you hoard SPP?
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 17:03 Reply with quote Back to top

RedFish wrote:
mister__joshua wrote:
Wouldn’t Games played matching just force everyone to horde SPPs or be at a large disadvantage? At least with TV matching you’d be playing against teams build in roughly the same way yours was.

Which is not to say I’m for or against either system, just an observation


Wouldn't you be at a disadvantage late in a season, where you hoard SPP?


Sure. But wouldn't your players be cheaper against the cap next season? Buy all your skills after game one and be suddenly stronger.

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RedFish



Joined: Dec 04, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 17:05 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
RedFish wrote:
mister__joshua wrote:
Wouldn’t Games played matching just force everyone to horde SPPs or be at a large disadvantage? At least with TV matching you’d be playing against teams build in roughly the same way yours was.

Which is not to say I’m for or against either system, just an observation


Wouldn't you be at a disadvantage late in a season, where you hoard SPP?


Sure. But wouldn't your players be cheaper against the cap next season? Buy all your skills after game one and be suddenly stronger.


I guess I'm mainly responding to what, I perceive as that idea, that by not hoarding SPPs, you'd be at a disadvantage, because you'll be facing more skilled opponents early next season in a number-of-matches-this-season environment vs TV-matched. But if that's true, then surely you had an advantage late last season?

So it's trading one advantage for another.
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 17:06 Reply with quote Back to top

mister__joshua wrote:
Wouldn’t Games played matching just force everyone to horde SPPs or be at a large disadvantage? At least with TV matching you’d be playing against teams build in roughly the same way yours was.

Which is not to say I’m for or against either system, just an observation


Yes but the point of hoarding spp is to gain an advantage NEXT season. So you're perhaps down TV for your final games in Season 1 (but you get inducements) and then in Season 2, you cash in those spp, your TV gets a jump and now you're the overdog (but giving away inducements).

This is why Games Played match making is crucial... it provides the "league style" strategic advantages and disadvantages of spp hoarding as you make a run for the Season.

Its why I foresee the best C division would be that style of match making with a "fumbbl cup" style knock out based on some sort of qualification criteria (like 13+ wins out of 15 games) every 3 or 6 calendar months.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 17:48 Reply with quote Back to top

ClayInfinity wrote:
...
Its why I foresee the best C division would be that style of match making with a "fumbbl cup" style knock out based on some sort of qualification criteria (like 13+ wins out of 15 games) every 3 or 6 calendar months.


Would that be "pure" scheduler only wins?

Gamefinder would be pretty awful if everyone knew that they needed a minimum of 13 wins. Twisted Evil

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ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 14, 2021 - 21:36 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
ClayInfinity wrote:
...
Its why I foresee the best C division would be that style of match making with a "fumbbl cup" style knock out based on some sort of qualification criteria (like 13+ wins out of 15 games) every 3 or 6 calendar months.


Would that be "pure" scheduler only wins?

Gamefinder would be pretty awful if everyone knew that they needed a minimum of 13 wins. Twisted Evil


Yes. I think something like the Black Box Trophy with a Black Box scheduler (utilising games played as its primary factor rather than TV) in which the Top "x" teams qualify for a knockout period.

Everyone can play any race to 15 games and lets say the top 128 teams after say 3mths then qualifies for the "playoffs". Each coach can only have one team so it may not be 13 wins needed, but I think that would be a nice "season" to have.

Maybe 3mths is too short to allow the more casual player to qualify, but it would certainly enable the fumbbl addicts to try and try again to get into the Top 128.

All of the numerical values I have mentioned are variable, but certainly having a goal of "playoffs" after a "season" utilising a scheduler would be ideal.
mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 15, 2021 - 00:57
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I’ve suggested something very similar a few times in previous threads. For me this is absolutely the way to go

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Oct 15, 2021 - 01:19 Reply with quote Back to top

smeborg wrote:
I am enjoying BB2020 in FUMBBL very much, so many thanks to Christer and no doubt others for making this possible.

It occurs to me that there may be a loophole in the rules at re-draft. If you allow teams to carry forward SPPs on players into the next season, this allows "gaming" of the system. Just accumulate 6 (or 17, lol) SPPs on each player, do not take any skills. Then, after the first game of the new season, buy lots of skills.

My suggestion is to not allow SPPs to be carried forward. Force the coach to "cash in the SPPs for skills" or lose them. I expect there are other ways, but this seems to be the simplest solution.

Note that this is a "flaw" in the GW ruleset (if I understand it correctly), nothing to do with FUMBBL (except that FUMBBL could pioneer the rule change).


Nah, thanks though.
ben_awesome



Joined: May 11, 2016

Post   Posted: Oct 15, 2021 - 02:06 Reply with quote Back to top

its called league strategy, throw away season 1, get great players in season 2, then not be able to afford all of them for the rebuy in season 3 and see what happens, or focus on keeping some and building up others for season 3 and 4 etc.

added aspect of team management in my personal opinion.
smeborg



Joined: Jan 04, 2019

Post   Posted: Oct 16, 2021 - 19:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks, everyone, I accept your verdict and the reasons.
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