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Uber



Joined: Mar 22, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 22, 2021 - 18:28 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
Could it be left to die peacefully in its sleep?

Yes

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Recovering FUMBBL addict.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 22, 2021 - 18:37 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
...I really don't get why it can't be used as only way to find competitive (i.e. with CR gain/loss involved) games.
It's 2021, not 2003. Let's use automatic MM as many online games do.


Because there is really no reason to do that.

If you really think that your black box rating is so important, go look at your black box rating. Or whatever it'll be called now. The hardcore, pure, big bollocks rating or whatever.

Everyone else can look at whatever rating they prefer.

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[SL]2020 Rookie Rumble - New teams ONLY - Always recruiting!


Last edited by koadah on Oct 22, 2021 - 19:04; edited 1 time in total
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 22, 2021 - 18:44 Reply with quote Back to top

maznaz wrote:
Catalyst32 wrote:
maznaz wrote:
Catalyst32 wrote:
maznaz wrote:
MattDakka wrote:
PurpleChest wrote:
i would always counter that my 'utopia' is somewhere everyone derives equal and maximum enjoyment from gaming the way they wish, without feeling the need to impose their personal choices upon others.

Automatic scheduling is the right and fair compromise between two coaches' personal and selfish choices.
It removes the picking problem and saves lot of time, thus increasing the number of fair games played.
If people want to pick they can still do it in League.
No problem with that, as long as you don't get CR Gamefinder is ok.

It's not the way I prefer, it's just the most logical and efficient way to arrange matches.
The way I'd prefer, to be accurate, is Cyanide MM, where you spin and find a game within 2-3 minutes, but, since here the number of coaches is lower, I accept to wait for a draw every 15 minutes.
Staring at the GF for hours is really a massive waste of time, also, sometimes I have to do RL stuff and miss the offers or the search stops after a while.


I agree with your thoughts on a scheduler. The idea of a competitive division where you choose your opponents has always been hilarious to me. You could speed up your time to find matches though by not avoiding my dwarfs for hours at a time Smile


AND CHECK.
Another coach from a European Time Zone who thinks forcing everyone into a format that only RELIABLY WORKS during the primary European Time Zones.

This site has coaches that are from Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Canada, America, and other places who CANNOT get games through the Scheduler because there are not enough other Coaches to play against.

Just because in Europe everyone is AFRAID to play against other Coaches in games they might both enjoy doesn't mean the rest of the world does that exclusively.

You are FREE to have that unrealistic opinion because you do not have to spend hours looking for ANYONE to play. You can put your preferred teams in the scheduler and play right away.

The rest of us CANNOT use the damn thing most of the time.


An automated scheduler makes it easier to get games not harder.



NO. Not if there are not enough COACHES to schedule a match.
And there are not enough Coaches for HOURS at a time in many time zones.
Instead NO MATCHES are scheduled.

Gamefinder only requires 2 Coaches willing to play and in those Time Zones there must not be as many "Dirty Pickers" that so many Coaches complain about.


If THERE are not ENOUGH coaches to schedule A match, then HAVING SOME of them sat on GAMEFINDER waiting for the RIGHT elves to COME ALONG makes it TAKE longer for everyone ELSE. God that was annoying to type. Why do you do it?

Virtually every online gaming environment has casual pickups for no rank, and ranked matches using a scheduler. This site always resisted it and I have no idea why.


That is NOT what I am talking about and you know it.
I am talking about there are no other coaches for hours.
Not sitting on Game Finder waiting... and not in the Scheduler waiting for games.

I am talking about other coaches NOT EXISTING to be played against in the Scheduler and the only way to play is for the same TWO Coaches to play through the Game Finder.

This problem EXISTS and has ever since the Black Box was created and not MERGED with Ranked.

I have over 30 ACTIVE TEAMS across Ranked, Box and League because I cannot PLAY if I do not.

It would be so much better to have about 19 or 15 teams that can be played at any hour of the day... and not just on the AM's I have off and can play against coaches in Europe.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 22, 2021 - 18:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Double Post.


Last edited by Catalyst32 on Oct 22, 2021 - 19:02; edited 1 time in total
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 22, 2021 - 18:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Java wrote:
Catalyst32 wrote:
Java wrote:
hands up if you can go on gamefinder and get offered a decent, fun, winnable match within minutes

o/

bonus points if in the meantime you also get pinged to death by tier 1 hardliners (but only on your lower tier teams Twisted Evil )



And yet ANOTHER European Coach who is ASLEEP or AT WORK (or SCHOOL) during the HOURS of the day when there are not enough Coaches activating for the scheduler to work that thinks HE KNOWS what Coaches from Time Zones outside of Europe go through to use the scheduler.

Raise your hand if you have heard someone that doesn't know what he is talking about spout off about it and never come to understand it any better despite decades.

\o


Mate.

I want no quarrel with you.

Go back and reread my post.

I was talking about GAMEFINDER.

It contains the word "gamefinder".

You went on a rant about Europeans and the SCHEDULER.

My post does not contain the word "scheduler".

By the way, my current work schedule means I sometimes play a match in the morning after coffee, against a Pacific TZ coach (NA/AU/NZ) who's in their evening or wee hours of the morning. If you ever fancy playing again, I'm your buddy. Playing sure beats forum drama for most of us.

In the meantime, an apology, or even an admission of error, would be welcome.


You ask me to READ. I ask you to COMPREHEND what you Read.

Your post was about using Gamefinder... which you play during European PEAK HOURS or Pacific PEAK HOURS.
You can play in 2 of the 3 SWEET SPOTS including the Primary Sweet Spot of European Evenings.

What about all of the other hours of the day?
Oh... that's right. You don't have to deal with those hours because you have easy-to-find games available to you when you want.


As for playing a game should we find ourselves on the site looking to play at the same time? What does that have to do with anything?
Of course< I would play you. The 2 are not mutually exclusive.
Perhaps the BEST thing about you (or anyone in this thread) is that they play Blood Bowl.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 22, 2021 - 19:00 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
"Virtually every online gaming environment has casual pickups for no rank, and ranked matches using a scheduler. This site always resisted it and I have no idea why."
I agree with you. Many years ago it was even worse: games had to be arranged via PM between coaches, something like: "Hello, do you want to play my Dwarfs 1200 vs your Humans 1190?". It was even more time-wasting than now, with a direct offer GF.
Then it made sense because there was no scheduler on the site, but now that a scheduler exists, I really don't get why it can't be used as only way to find competitive (i.e. with CR gain/loss involved) games.
It's 2021, not 2003. Let's use automatic MM as many online games do.



You don't get it?

Maybe it is because "HALO" and "Mario Cart" have 100 times (or more) the player base that FUMBBL has.

When I played those games I often had more available players IN THE ROOM at times than FUMBBL has on the site.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 22, 2021 - 19:07 Reply with quote Back to top

And many of the few users spend their time writing on the forum rather than playing.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 22, 2021 - 19:09 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:

Because there is really no reason to do that.

If you really think that your black box rating is so important, go look at your black box rating. Or whatever it'll be called now. The hardcore, pure, big bollocks rating or whatever.

Everyone else can look at whatever rating they prefer.

Putting aside the CR and rating, a good and practical reason is: finding a reasonably balanced game in few minutes without bothering to check offers/having to offer a game.
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 22, 2021 - 19:25 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
koadah wrote:

Because there is really no reason to do that.

If you really think that your black box rating is so important, go look at your black box rating. Or whatever it'll be called now. The hardcore, pure, big bollocks rating or whatever.

Everyone else can look at whatever rating they prefer.

Putting aside the CR and rating, a good and practical reason is: finding a reasonably balanced game in few minutes without bothering to check offers/having to offer a game.


You can do that in a C division with both matchmaking systems.
What you can't stand is that CoachXXX might have a higher CR than you by using GF. Or that you are not strong enough to resist the picking, while your sweetspotting is morally superior.

But you would absolutely be able to "find a reasonably balanced game in a few minutes" in the new C as Christer wants it.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 22, 2021 - 19:50 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
koadah wrote:

Because there is really no reason to do that.

If you really think that your black box rating is so important, go look at your black box rating. Or whatever it'll be called now. The hardcore, pure, big bollocks rating or whatever.

Everyone else can look at whatever rating they prefer.

Putting aside the CR and rating, a good and practical reason is: finding a reasonably balanced game in few minutes without bothering to check offers/having to offer a game.


You'll be free to play scheduler games only. It may not be "fair" for reasons mentioned already, but you'll be able to do it.

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Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Oct 22, 2021 - 20:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32, you clearly have a massive chip on your shoulder, I don't know why. You post a lot here but you don't play here. I have no idea what motivates you.

You completely misunderstood a post of mine in order to go on a rant, and doubled down when honestly corrected. When I go on GF in the morning, there's generally 1-2 people at most, and I still get a match if I want to play. This is what I was saying, but since you don't play here, you have no idea about CET mornings gamefinder, calling it peak time. You clearly know nothing but want to carry on with your rant, no matter what.

To ever engage with you was a mistake. There is no way to reach you. Take care.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 22, 2021 - 20:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Just to be clear, Java is right about CET mornings. There is one peak time, it ends around midnight or 1am server and then it gets progressively sparser until the European morning crowd kicks in (still not many people). At 2 to 5 am server, there's some NA traffic but it's pretty quiet. But it's not much harder to get a match in Gamefinder at those times.

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argos_72



Joined: Mar 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 22, 2021 - 20:52 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
MattDakka wrote:
...I really don't get why it can't be used as only way to find competitive (i.e. with CR gain/loss involved) games.
It's 2021, not 2003. Let's use automatic MM as many online games do.


If you really think that your black box rating is so important, go look at your black box rating. Or whatever it'll be called now. The hardcore, pure, big bollocks rating or whatever.

Everyone else can look at whatever rating they prefer.


I think the coach ranking algorithm could take in consideration also other factors thank a simple comparison of CR, and D(TV)

I share this sentence by Maznaz which I agree
maznaz wrote:

Virtually every online gaming environment has casual pickups for no rank, and ranked matches using a scheduler. This site always resisted it and I have no idea why.


Rank depend also by the difficulty of the match. Not only by TV gap or coaches Ranking Gap (IMO).
If you use to play ONLY in Ranked you can reach the Legend status, Yes. But will be this level the same of one coach who reached the Legend status in Box? Maybe yes... Maybe not
But I read what us written here
https://fumbbl.com/help:CRP

Blackbox: "HIGHLY competitive... Cut Throath division... NOT recommended for newcomers!"
WOW
seems a warning hanging at the gates of Dante's inferno !
Twisted Evil

Ranked: " this division is a good starting place for new coaches"
Mmmm... sounds more "easy" not? A "nice place to start". I can imagine that most of newcomers will play ranked and not Box.

But anyway... as Christer mentioned in a previous post a coach's skill is also knowing how to pick well. So maybe if one coach Legend in ranked is because also he has developed a very good skill to pick .


SO maybe at the end a coach who reached the Legend status in Ranked( Competitive) deserves his title as well in Box.
Maybe...

But I think this will be debatable

There is one thing I am firmly convinced of: that one Coach to keep his status as Legend, Superstar or whatever MUST play a minimum of RANKED games per year.

I find it "strange" to see some coaches who are TOP 1 in the coach ranking that has not been playing anymore games in Box, Competitive or Ranked since maybe one or two years but only friendly leagues and they still sit in the top 10 position.

This I think "pollutes" a little bit the general ranking. don't you think? Wink

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ANY reference to facts, persons present is PURELY CASUAL
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Of course this is my humble and insignificant opinion and I don't pretend to ask for any change in the ranking of this site if only I think so.
stej



Joined: Jan 05, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 22, 2021 - 21:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Isn't box where legend bash coaches live and ranked where legend baller teams live?
MerryZ



Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 22, 2021 - 21:11 Reply with quote Back to top

I think what you play has more impact on your ranking than where you play.
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