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Malmir



Joined: May 20, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2022 - 21:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Hi had it twice now in recent games including the one I am currently playing (snots v nobility for my own reference to add the link later - my turn one) where I've failed stupid and not been offered a pro rr. It usually works but on two occasions. I seem to remember being stood in a similar square so don't know if it's a coding error for that particualr square if that's possible.
C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2022 - 22:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Pro only works if you have a tacklezone, any chance both the fails came after the Troll had failed RS in the previous turn, or was trying to stand up, or was Hypotised etc?
Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2022 - 23:02 Reply with quote Back to top

That's right, pro no longer works when you are prone.

I think it still works if you failed RS or Hypno the previous turn as you regain your TZ at the start of your next activation, before rolling for RS.

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2022 - 23:18 Reply with quote Back to top

i believe that rolling negatraits occur prior to your activation (whereas regaining your tackle zones happens at the start of your activation, before the action itself occurs), so if you failed your negatrait the previous turn, you are still without tacklezones when you roll your negatrait, so can't use pro.
Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2022 - 23:24 Reply with quote Back to top

If you rolled RS/BH before you was activated you wouldn't bee able to use Pro at all, as you can only it using during your activation, right?

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Malmir



Joined: May 20, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2022 - 23:27 Reply with quote Back to top

https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=4360655 was the game. Can't remember to be honest about tacklezones without checkign (off t bed) but my gut says they were live. Might be wrong though. Starting to doubt myself Smile
Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 26, 2022 - 23:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Certainly looks like RS is rolled once activated, not before:

"activation ends immediately"
"this player continues their activation as normal"

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2022 - 00:09 Reply with quote Back to top

hmm.. whats the wording on when you regain tackle zones then?
Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2022 - 00:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
On a roll of 1-3, this player forgets what they are doing and their activation ends immediately. Additionally, this player loses their Tackle Zone until they are next activated.

https://www.dadidimerda.it/skills-traits.php?category=Traits

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C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2022 - 00:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Really Stupid starts with when the player is activated, even if they are prone or have lost their tackle zone, immediately after declaring an action.....

Now presumably you only get your tackle zone back by doing an action rather than declaring something e.g. when you actually moves, stand up, recover from hypno etc.

Pro is 'available during an activation' with no mention of actions etc.

The bit in the RS description about if you've lost you tackle zone says to me that you can activate, declare and RS roll before doing an actual action....which would be before the TZ returns.

Hence Pro wouldn't work on a RS roll for a player that was RS/Hypno/prone at the start of the team turn.


Last edited by C0ddlefish on Jan 27, 2022 - 00:42; edited 2 times in total
Candlejack



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2022 - 00:19 Reply with quote Back to top

The wordings for all nega traits says "roll immediately after declaring the action but before performing the action".

Once you lost it due to RS and the like it seems plausible you can only regain it once you make a successful RS roll. Would seem a bit weird to regain it upon action declaration just to lose it again.

I agree that this is not totally clear and we had a few discussions about it. The current implementation seems to be the closest to how the rules are written which is what we strife for.

If someone can get a clarification out of the GW guys that would be more than welcome.

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tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2022 - 00:25 Reply with quote Back to top

They say in the rules, all such negatraits are specifically used even when you have lost your Tackle Zone.

"When this player is activated, even if they are prone or have lost their Tackle Zone, ..."

Like, if you can have still lost your TZ at that point, well, that'd be a need to say that.

It's why they use "when" in the rules, eh. They use "immediately after" if they mean after, they use "when" if they mean effectively simultaneous.

So when you activate you declare your action and target (and actions only one player per turn can declare are thus used up), and then also when you activate you roll your Really Stupid type traits (but you have not activated until you're done all that!).

Once you roll your negatrait, you've activated, and if it doesn't immediately end your turn, you're away.

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C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2022 - 00:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Candlejack has probably summed it up far better than me.

So I'm my mind it is a question of when is a player actually activated? At declaration of action e.g. it will stand up, it will recover from Hypno, it will vomit on you? Or the action actually occuring e.g. it stands up, it moves, it vomits etc.

With negatraits occuring between declaration and action then I subscribe to the latter with no further info from GW

Edit: again beaten to it my a better coach. I subscribe to Tussock's logic
MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2022 - 06:58 Reply with quote Back to top

I had somebody tell me the opposite to Tussock's reasoning, and they were quite vociferous that at the point of activation, an Ogre that's boneheaded from his previous turn isn't boneheaded any more (so they have their tackle zones back and can use Pro), and then (assuming they bonehead again, lose their tackle zones once more). Occam's Razor suggests to me that this is daft, but you could interpret the rulebook that way

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Malmir



Joined: May 20, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 27, 2022 - 07:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for the clarification everyone and it makes sense to me.
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