the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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 Posted:
Nov 10, 2015 - 01:44 |
 
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If you give humans blockers, I'd make it 0-2 blockers, 0-2 blitzers.
As for stats, something like 5428 GS comes to mind, though I could live with 5438,5429 or 4439 as well. |
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Tymless
Joined: Jul 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 10, 2015 - 01:50 |
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Why not give them something like a Troll Slayer. So 0-2 6328 Block, Dauntless with G/S access. |
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Nightbird
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 10, 2015 - 01:55 |
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| fidius wrote: |
Personally I think there's a place for a "defensive Dauntless" skill. Call it Staunch (S): equalize 1 point of Strength diff on a 4+ (2 pts = 5+, 3pts = 6+). Slap it on a 0-2 Human 5329 blocker... |
OR
just allow dauntless to work on defense as well as offense.
OT: humans need a catcher buff to ST3 & access to halflings. |
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tussock
Joined: May 29, 2011
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Nov 10, 2015 - 02:07 |
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Human Blitzers are outstanding, the four of them devastate the lesser teams. They also have a cheap thrower to safely get the ball and a cheap catch/dodge MA 8 to threaten quick TDs from long range and give them much easier 1-turn attempts.
A problem for them in the current game structure is you can't carry spare catchers on the bench because it bloats your TV and steals your inducements (or gives your opponents a Wizard and then some). That's why people want a tougher catcher, they're only carrying the one, where in the older versions of 3rd edition it was fine to carry three more on the bench and run an MA 7 and 8 squad for 2-turn attempts or against faster teams.
Possibly they just need to be a bit cheaper, or we need to re-work the inducements to allow more of a bench for these teams that really need one. It's easy enough to roll +AG if you carry a few, and give out some Diving Catch, and so on. The problems mostly fix themselves.
The fluff for humans is they can run with the Skaven and Woodies and bash with the Chaos and Undead, and they can, just not with the same 11 players. |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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| Posted:
Nov 10, 2015 - 02:19 |
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Give them 2 st4 and 2 ag4 catchers. Make them top tier. Or leave them as they are. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Nov 10, 2015 - 03:01 |
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| uzkulak wrote: | | Catchers start with diving catch and the throwers with accurate, that would work well enough, if you dont like ag4 catchers. I cant see the point of making humans bashier, they are already very effective at hurting other hybrid teams and elves, but are much faster than any genuine bash teams so fit nicely in that middle ground. |
I keep quoting 'how it was' however old stat lines a Skaven/Human/Orc thrower/catcher combo was as good as throwing and catching as an Elf lino combo. Of course Elven throwers and catchers were better.
I believe the initial idea was that this would be the same. The elves natural AG4 being the same as an ag3 thrower/catcher combo. However AG4 with RR throwing and catching is of course just that little bit better that makes it worth it and AG3 with pass/catch not.
I think the best idea is to have a separate stat again for throwing......or DukeT's idea of combining pass and safe throw.
| tussock wrote: | Human Blitzers are outstanding, the four of them devastate the lesser teams. They also have a cheap thrower to safely get the ball and a cheap catch/dodge MA 8 to threaten quick TDs from long range and give them much easier 1-turn attempts.
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Your statements are always an interesting read! |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 10, 2015 - 03:30 |
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Is it just me, or does it seem like just a minority of us that think the team is good as it is? |
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Tomay
Joined: Apr 26, 2008
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Nov 10, 2015 - 03:51 |
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Why do we need to make everything Tier 1? If we're going to make changes, just balance out the bash access away from claw teams and distribute it evenly (eg. like fouling in LRB4).
Humans aren't great, but they aren't horrible - they're flexible. You can outbash the elves and out ball the bashers with a bit of luck and a deep bench. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Nov 10, 2015 - 04:16 |
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The reasoning behind it, is that in 2nd edition humans were supposed to have the best team; Reikland Reavers.
So to fit in with the fluff (and possibly that human's tend to be very popular in GW games) human's should get a buff.
Whether there was a strong inclination to do this with the old BBRC is down to interpretation. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 10, 2015 - 04:22 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | The reasoning behind it, is that in 2nd edition humans were supposed to have the best team; Reikland Reavers.
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yeah, but they can still exist with spam stat increases. still in the range of possibility. just not 'normal' human teams.  |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 10, 2015 - 04:23 |
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| Tomay wrote: | Why do we need to make everything Tier 1? If we're going to make changes, just balance out the bash access away from claw teams and distribute it evenly (eg. like fouling in LRB4).
. |
^^^
What da Ozzie said! |
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zakatan
Joined: May 17, 2008
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| Posted:
Nov 10, 2015 - 04:43 |
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Putting together the addition of blockers and halfling access suggested in this thread, you get the...
Fellowship
0-2 Dwarf Longbeards
0-2 Human Blitzers
0-2 Human Catchers (+ST or +AV)
0-4 Halflings
0-1 Wood elf Lineelf
0-16 Vanilla lino with some fluff to justify them
Team gets a rostered Wizard |
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fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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| Posted:
Nov 10, 2015 - 05:39 |
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| zakatan wrote: | Putting together the addition of blockers and halfling access suggested in this thread, you get the...
Fellowship
0-2 Dwarf Longbeards
0-2 Human Blitzers
0-2 Human Catchers (+ST or +AV)
0-4 Halflings
0-1 Wood elf Lineelf
0-16 Vanilla lino with some fluff to justify them
Team gets a rostered Wizard |
LOL
| harvestmouse wrote: | | I think the best idea is to have a separate stat again for throwing......or DukeT's idea of combining pass and safe throw. |
Not sure I'd add another stat, especially for something as relatively rare as passing. But I do like the idea of being able to use AG or ST to make throws. Small change, but gives Throwers an additional benefit to taking that 6,6 roll.
Or making your Bull Centaur your Quarterback... Ugh maybe I don't like it so much anymore. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Nov 10, 2015 - 05:57 |
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Well passing shouldn't be so rare. There should be teams that prefer to pass than run. The fact there is a running bias (an extreme running bias) is a problem with the ruleset.
It's the fact they we know (more than the original creators) had bad turning over is, that we don't pass.
I personally think it would add a lot, and wouldn't be confusing (especially online of course), but that might not be the case. |
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Dunenzed
Joined: Oct 28, 2011
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| Posted:
Nov 10, 2015 - 06:13 |
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| Mr_Foulscumm wrote: | | Is it just me, or does it seem like just a minority of us that think the team is good as it is? |
Or great, even. But that puts you in dubious company. |
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Gnomes are trash
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