ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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 Posted:
Jul 06, 2016 - 03:42 |
 
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Blitz a skink never seems to net me any cas (if I can even get to the skinks with their high Ma and how fast the Saurases are. And man marking just leave me with no players because the lizards cas or KO them all.
Specifically for humans, undead, and Necro, as they are my most played teams and Lizards give me the most trouble. Though I think I've only played Lizards v undead once and they didn't seem to hard then and I've never played lizards with necro. |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Jul 06, 2016 - 05:35 |
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Tackle kills Skinks DEAD.
Kill the Skinks and the Saurus will be unable to ball.
Man-mark Skinks and Blitz Skinks at every opportunity.
Stay 1 BACK and 2 DEEP from the Saurus'
If you must Man Mark the Saurus' force the matchups.
Stick Zombies and Linemen on the Saurus' so your Blitzers are free to chase down Skinks.
Your Blitzers (and Wights) having Block and the Skinks not having it out to land you a few extra KO, CAS or Stuns that keep the Skinks down and OUT.
AND when you mark the Saurus' mark them so that when they Block you IF they follow up it opens holes for you to run through to kill Skinks. |
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DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
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Jul 06, 2016 - 05:36 |
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As stated; tackle. Tackle and block turn skinks to skink pate. Add in a little mighty blow and you can make skink pie. |
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Using derivative humor since 2005.
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Jul 06, 2016 - 05:56 |
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Foul the occasional Saurus. Losing Saurus is a pretty bad thing. Necro have numbers.
2 Guard 1 Claw Blitz. Use your wolf to pick off Saurus, try and set up chain pushes that clears your guards out of reprisal either by moving the Saurus himself with the dice out (and hopefully out of the game) player or by chaining him into a guard player who can provide an assist somewhere better, and risk the 1/9 on a dodge clad wolf to dodge out of and subsequent tackle zones the wolf winds up in.
Also, use your Flesh Golems on chain pushes to prevent the wolf from getting in a bad spot. Standfirm is so good.
Don't play stupid and Pile On a Krox. With an Ogre. As Humans. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Jul 06, 2016 - 07:29 |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Jul 06, 2016 - 07:54 |
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foul |
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almic85
Joined: May 25, 2009
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Jul 06, 2016 - 08:18 |
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Kill the skinks. Just focus on killing the skinks for the first half and reducing his numbers on the pitch. With only AG1 left on the pitch he can't pick up the ball.
Every chance you get gang foul them or get in base to base contact with them with someone with block or tackle to increase the chance of knocking them down and force them roll dice to dodge away.
If you get one on the floor foul it and kill it.
Get your linos to mark up against the saurus' and tie them up if they are rookie saurus'. If they the Saurus have BT then stand off them and minimise blocks.
If he forms a saurus cage then form a loose screen across the front of the cage so he can only move forward one square at a time, and then put linemen in contact with the saurus at the rear so they have to block backwards and choose to stay stationary or follow up away from the cage.
It is the same basics for playing against any team really. your strongest players should mark his middle strength, your mid strength mark his low strength and your low strength mark his high strength. You only have to win 2 of the 3 battles to win the blocking war.
So your ogre marks a saurus, ST5>ST4 (1-0)
Your blitzers mark his Skinks (4-0)
Your linemen/throwers/catchers mark or stand off the rest of the saurus and the Krox. (0-6)
By the time he has picked up a deep kick off and gotten the ball carrying skink back to the line of scrimmage you should have been able to at least stun 1-2 skinks and you should have the numbers advantage. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Jul 06, 2016 - 08:26 |
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kill the skinks.
mark the sauri with line fodder and tie them up (harder when they get BT). |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Jul 06, 2016 - 08:41 |
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Some races find lizards tougher to beat than others. Try playing with them and watch how people beat you. |
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Elyoukey
Joined: Nov 30, 2006
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Jul 06, 2016 - 08:55 |
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As a lizard player, i can assure you that the basic skink hunt is mainly wrong. It may work sometimes, but basing your strategy on a skink hunt will let you out of position and a good lizard caoch will just outrun your players for an easy score. Unless you have a dedicated block/tackle/mighty/MV7+ but even with such a player, lizard may get rid of him if you don't add an escort, leaving the rest of the pitch open.
Human just don't have the strength to tie up with lizard, i think it is one of the most unbalanced game you can face. What you want to do is to minimize his blocks. So try not to stay in contact and prevent him to move forward. Basically use the elf scheme and let him only the blitz. Use your blitz to free up your guies and if you can catch one or two skinks in the process it is better. You will need some mighty blow and some guard to be able to punch back. Any cas is good, a saurus less is less firepower a skink less is less ball handling so don't focus on skinks and hit anything you can with 2 dice, mighty blow, but the most important thing is to keep your players alive.
Unless it is a rookie lizard team then you can try the contact thing and hope for a early turn over, but i would not bet on it.
Also learn the OTTD with your catcher, this is your last cut to draw a drive.
Necromantics are different because the zombies are designed to tie up big things. And the wolves can make some damage. i would use the same strategy as human at least for the first few turns, try not to go in contact but counter punch instead. here again some guard will help. Protect your wolves and leave them far from the kroxigor. actually all your positionnal should be kept away from the kroxigor ghouls don't like to loose there mobility, werewolves and wight may not be able to find enough support to get rid of him.
I don't think undead is an underdog against lizard. The game is pretty balanced. You can tie some saurus with zombies, hit hard enough with the mummies and you can skink chase with the ghouls/wights. You need 1 or 2 guards, but basically try to punch everything that goes in front with mummies. mightyblow should keep you up.
If he brings some of your mummies down, don't fear the GFI to blitz a saurus, it is always a good bargain.
My 2 cents |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Jul 06, 2016 - 13:23 |
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Yeah, I was jokingly going to post "don't go after skinks with necro, cpomb saurus into the ground" in the thread earlier, but there's a bit of sense in that flippant remark. Lizardmen don't need a great many skinks, and a good lizardman coach can quite easily keep two safe, never mind the one he needs if he's got a dedicated ball carrier. Reality is when you have the opportunity to blitz a skink against lizzies most of the time it's because that's the one the coach chose to put there. Which means he's either dispensable, or you've just sacrificed position to go cas-hunting. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Jul 06, 2016 - 13:29 |
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What Elyoukey said. Skink hunt is exaggerated and overrated. Lizards are insanely tough for Humans, good luck! |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Jul 06, 2016 - 17:06 |
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I agree the Humans VS Lizard are a very tough match up for the Humans.
I agree that the skink hunt is not the right tactic to take.
My Buccaneers are 17/12/42 against Lizards, no bueno, I agree.
Here is what I found worked against Lizards.
When I have success against them are the times I have a few players with Dauntless. Having dauntless on a blitzer or two does wonders against the saurus.
Lizards have 7 players with ST4+. The live and die by those players also. IF you can depitch 3-4 of them that makes a huge difference.
You throw every thing you have at those players. Blitz with dauntless or mass guard, hit the PileOn YES button every stinking time and if that fails send in the boot. It is all out assault mode.
I have found that Lizard teams are not very inclined to foul so I do not mind laying guys out on PileOn. Yes, even the Ogre goes man to man with the Krox and lays out the PileOn.
Focus on the guys who have Break Tackle. You de pitch the break tackle guys then you can go back to the man lock plan with your linos.
Once you focus on their big guys the lizards will be forced to expose some skinks to help out on the all out assault and they will from time to time get locked up so you can block them.
Summary
Having dauntless on a few players does wonders, also a good plan when you face Orcs or Chaos or any team with 4+ players who start with ST4 or higher.
Focus all your firepower on the big guys, even if it is a 1BD. Pushing them back so they cannot block is a good thing.
Once they are on the ground, smash the pileon and foul button, those two buttons should be worn out by the end of the match, to the point of broken and you need a new keyboard.
Final thought that I forgot.
DO NOT MAN LOCK SAURUS OR KROX WITH ROOKIE LINOS! You are just asking for trouble. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Jul 06, 2016 - 17:33 |
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I think part of the problem with defeating Lizards is that it’s generally pretty tough to wrestle the tempo away from them. Mark a Saurus, blitz a Skink? Brilliant, I’ll knock all of your players over until they go away, and you’re unlikely to see my Skinks unless I want you to. Line up and play passively? Well, OK. Eventually, I’m going to shove a Krox and some Saurus in your face to make contact where I want contact, and my Skink can score from 10 squares out with relative reliability. Do a bit of both? I’m really fast, I’ll go over here and outmanoeuvre you. And then on your drive, good luck breaking through 7 ST4+ players! All of the tempo rests with the Lizzies all too often; you’re reacting to them rather than the other way around.
It’s a tough gig, but not an impossible one. I agree with much of the above; ‘mark a Saurus, blitz a Skink’ isn’t a repeatable, winning strategy. Wrestling the momentum from the Lizards is. Undead are OK – they have some strength of their own, some fodder and some pace. Mummies can hit a Saurus and then maybe mark two, Zombies can pin downed Saurus, taking the game away from them. Breakaways are covered by Ghouls, it’s a 50/50 game. Necro are a little less OK, but at least there is some ST 4 / SF and Claw / pace there. Fleshies can make Lizard progress hard, and when a Saurus or two goes away, Lizards are orders of magnitude less effective. Humans against big strength is an awful game, and Lizards are perhaps the biggest problem they need to solve, probably just pipping Orcs and their ST4 pals. I tend to attempt to keep at least three of my Guard Blitzers and / or Ogre mobile every turn. It is unlikely I’ll be able to control tempo across the pitch, so I must control the local area I deem most important at that point. That Guard and Ogre can give you enough grunt to slightly overpower Lizards in a certain area at a certain time; but then it’s important to control contact (minimising blocks and chances for those players to be pinned) and keep them mobile. Jamming them all in, then losing them to a couple of Saurus marking positional moves is no good.
Generally though, Lizzies are a top team. You’ll need to give them something to think about, and that’s not easy. Practice and have fun!  |
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ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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| Posted:
Jul 14, 2016 - 13:09 |
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Who even has a good match up vs lizards? Just claw chaos and leap strip ball elves? |
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