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Desultory



Joined: Jun 24, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2016 - 22:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Is there a written rule anywhere that states that I can not click the timeout button (after an opponent goes over 4 minutes) for any specific situation??

For example, what would happen in the following scenarios:
1) My opponent writes 'there is a bug, stop playing', lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeoue and carry on playing. Then my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.
2) My opponent writes 'afk', lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeout and carry on playing. If my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.
3) My opponent writes 'I need 5 minutes for x'. I write nothing back. lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeout and carry on playing. If my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.
4) My opponent writes 'I need 5 minutes for x'. I write 'ok'. lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeout and carry on playing. If my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.

Etc

I ask because I would like to have a clear understanding what the rule is. As generally one gets screwed over by being nice.

I'm not interested in a moral debate. Just want to clear up the rule if there is one.
Sutherlands



Joined: Aug 01, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2016 - 22:39 Reply with quote Back to top

The general rule is that the timeout button should only be used if your opponent goes over 4 minutes of playing time. That means if they have something they have to take care of real quick, or especially if there's a bug (that can be recovered by admins), then you are not to use the timeout button.
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2016 - 22:48 Reply with quote Back to top

These are my guesses only, as admins will determine things on the basis of the info they have from both parties.

1) My opponent writes 'there is a bug, stop playing', lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeoue and carry on playing. Then my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.

--- you would get warned/banned/something for for abusing the timeout button.

2) My opponent writes 'afk', lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeout and carry on playing. If my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.

--- you would get warned/banned/something for abusing the timeout button.

3) My opponent writes 'I need 5 minutes for x'. I write nothing back. lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeout and carry on playing. If my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.

--- you would get warned/banned/something for abusing the timeout button.

4) My opponent writes 'I need 5 minutes for x'. I write 'ok'. lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeout and carry on playing. If my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.

--- you would get warned/banned/something for both lying to your opponent and for abusing the timeout button.

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Desultory



Joined: Jun 24, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2016 - 22:48 Reply with quote Back to top

'The general rule' implies there is no written rule

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akaRenton



Joined: Apr 15, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2016 - 22:56 Reply with quote Back to top

What pythrr said, but also depends which admin deals with it. Some interprit the rules on such things in a stricter light. Very very few timeouts happen on here, but where they do unless a ticket is raised it wouldn't be policed (I'm reliably informed).

Wait for an Admin to reply for their take on it.

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The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2016 - 23:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Each admin is a different person who will deal with each case and support ticket based on the merits of that case. That most often means getting both sides of the story, and a ticket often isn't quickly resolved.

The site tends NOT to lay down hard and fast rules, and rather trusts the judgement of the admin to deal with each case. Fumbbl can do that. It's not a public company.

If you haven't found the hard rule you are looking for it probablly isn't there. But there is a lot of FUMBBL 'culture' and usually good sportsmanship. But there is also a lack of sportsmanship and friendliness at times as well.

As for the timeout button.. There IS one. So that tells you something.

And here is a recent admin statement on a timeout ticket that involved me. So take it for what it's worth. It's not a written rule, but it was PM'd to me with reference to my case.

" The only time when he is not allowed to time you out is if you have stated you will be away from the keyboard for whatever reason or you have disconnected.

Again, this was for my case. But if you apply it to the scenarios above, one could be a scrotum-head and use the time-out button in most scenarios. And a big congrats should go to that person. You've just stopped your opponents fun and can continue with your own.

People come here for many reasons but they STAY for a few key ones. A) It has all of the rules and teams, and they all work. B) People finish the games that they start or they get warned, penalized, or very rarely banned. C) It's generally a great community and a lot of respectful fun can be had here.

Why some people need to bring a poisonous level of competitiveness here, I don't know. Your opponent is trying to enjoy himself. Let him. Sometimes you lose a game, even to people obviously worse at it than you. Can you not still be civil and have fun? Maybe a warning if his turns are running long and you are getting annoyed? I hear Cyanide's BB2 and League of Legends are great places to spend time.

The client does not ALWAYS recognize a disconnection and stop the clock. It sucks to have a good match tarnished by the time-out button when that happens.

There's the start of the moral debate you were not looking for. None of this is directed at you personally. I of course don't know any cases you are referring to.

TL/DR

No. Well, maybe. Kinda.

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2016 - 23:04 Reply with quote Back to top

What pythrr said. You're not supposed to time out your opponent if they d/c or have a RL emergency they have to deal with. If you don't observe it, you will probably annoy a lot of opponents and end up getting some stick from the admins.

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garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2016 - 23:10 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't see rules specifically about timeouts in Help->FUMBBL Rules. But there is rules on disconnections. Disconnections should be given 15 mins to come back before you stop playing. You are not meant to time out people when they say they are away from keyboard. Timeout is mainly for if an opponent is playing slowly (but still playing) and you are a very grumpy sort. But as I see it if they were away from keyboard for 15 mins+ you could leave, and if nothing heard in 24 hours put in a report for disconnection. They can't make you wait all day.

Your questions 2,3 and 4 are all very similar to each other. Your opponent claims they are away from keyboard. Can be irritating but you are supposed to wait and not time them out. If you did time them out they can indeed report you. You can follow disconnection rules if they are gone over 15 mins.

Question 1 is a bit trickier. If they aren't disconnected or saying they are away from keyboard then why would they they say there is a bug and stop? Generally it is worth making a screen grab of the client when someone disconnects or there is some disagreement and there may be reporting going on. I would think you could stop playing after 15 mins and report them after 24 hours if they aren't explaining themself.

If someone is for example just moving a player every 30 seconds then you could time them out.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2016 - 23:18 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't think that anyone really has any idea.

Different things are posted in the forums by admins. But who knows if what they remember has been superseded by something else.

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Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2016 - 23:42 Reply with quote Back to top

pythrr wrote:
These are my guesses only, as admins will determine things on the basis of the info they have from both parties.

1) My opponent writes 'there is a bug, stop playing', lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeoue and carry on playing. Then my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.


--- you would get warned/banned/something for for abusing the timeout button.

Quote:
2) My opponent writes 'afk', lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeout and carry on playing. If my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.


--- opponent would get warned/banned/something for dropping the game.

Quote:
3) My opponent writes 'I need 5 minutes for x'. I write nothing back. lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeout and carry on playing. If my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.


--- Response entirely dependent on reason x.

Quote:
4) My opponent writes 'I need 5 minutes for x'. I write 'ok'. lets his turn run over 4 minutes. I click timeout and carry on playing. If my opponent drops the game and writes a support ticket to admins, what happens.


--- you might get warned/banned/something for both lying to your opponent and for abusing the timeout button.

Wreckage wrote:
Your opponent says nothing. You time him out. He returns and tells you he disconnected, drops the game and writes a support ticket.


--- you would get warned/banned/something for for abusing the timeout button.
fidius



Joined: Jun 17, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2016 - 23:52 Reply with quote Back to top

The solution to your personal misery will not be found in the Timeout button, my friend.
Desultory



Joined: Jun 24, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2016 - 23:54 Reply with quote Back to top

I thank all for the replies, but it seems no one is in a position to answer objectively. It's at least nice to clarify that there isn't a written rule.

Personally I would like to see a clear rule written on this, and some other things regarding disconnection issues. But I understand it probably won't happen.

People (which includes admins), rarely make unbiassed decisions. It is better to have clear written rules, than to let a person or small group of people make them up on demand, depending on how polite you are to them, or what sort of day they've had...

Of course it's a game. That moral argument can be used to justify every action and inaction. "Oh it's just a game, don't moan because I clicked the timeout button". That's the problem with moral arguments - they are subjective. A written rule removes subjectivity and every one knows where they stand.
Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 00:14 Reply with quote Back to top

The admins have clarified the situation quite clearly. Pythrr simply gave the wrong answer and otherwise it's just a far spread Fumbbl myth.
Not that I could say to be correct for any particular case.
Fumbbl uses inquisition style rules. Meaning extnesive documentation and absolute silence about the decisions.

Bottom line is:
You can't know if somebody might have disconnected and you are not allowed to time somebody out for disconnecting. You have to follow the disconnect rules. The disconnect rules are written down.


Last edited by Wreckage on Oct 28, 2016 - 00:19; edited 2 times in total
FTJUK



Joined: Jun 10, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 00:16 Reply with quote Back to top

A potential solution could be for it to be written into the programme to end turns immediately after four minutes as per Cyanide. However, it's not a huge problem. Most players play well within the four minutes.

How coaches interpret the application of four minutes turn varies enormously. It's a grey area. If you personally want to strictly apply the four minute rule every game, say so at the start of the game. Both coaches will be aware.
m0gw41



Joined: Jun 12, 2012

Post   Posted: Oct 28, 2016 - 00:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Just follow the following rule: Don't be a d*ck.

All of your situations above break that rule.

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