| Poll |
| Do you like this feature idea? |
| Strongly agree |
|
23% |
[ 11 ] |
| Slightly agree |
|
6% |
[ 3 ] |
| Neutral |
|
21% |
[ 10 ] |
| Slightly disagree |
|
17% |
[ 8 ] |
| Strongly disagree |
|
31% |
[ 15 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 47 |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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 Posted:
Jun 19, 2023 - 14:13 |
 
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| badger89 wrote: | | Just putting you out they, why not do it like chess Bullet (1 mins turns), Blitz (2mins turns), Rapid (3 mins turns) and Classic (4mins turns) format. |
BB1 used to have something like this. Didn't Fumbbl? How did Speed Freaks Challenge(?) work?.
I think that the issue is that the user base is not big enough.
Splitting people up would mean that the Box maybe wouldn't work.
Just to make the main division work we have very experienced people in with fairly new people. Very competitive people in with much less competitive people.
People who want to smash through a match in 45 minutes with people who are much slower and may have interruptions.
In an ideal world many of these people would never have to play each other.
As it stands, people are all in there together which is why the current solution is probably the best. |
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badger89
Joined: Jun 03, 2014
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| Posted:
Jun 19, 2023 - 14:22 |
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| koadah wrote: | | badger89 wrote: | | Just putting you out they, why not do it like chess Bullet (1 mins turns), Blitz (2mins turns), Rapid (3 mins turns) and Classic (4mins turns) format. |
BB1 used to have something like this. Didn't Fumbbl? How did Speed Freaks Challenge(?) work?.
I think that the issue is that the user base is not big enough.
Splitting people up would mean that the Box maybe wouldn't work.
Just to make the main division work we have very experienced people in with fairly new people. Very competitive people in with much less competitive people.
People who want to smash through a match in 45 minutes with people who are much slower and may have interruptions.
In an ideal world many of these people would never have to play each other.
As it stands, people are all in there together which is why the current solution is probably the best. |
Did think we would have the player base but thought I would get my 2 pence in lol. I like the way it is but don't like the dicing I get so can I use other dice please haha |
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moph
Joined: Sep 16, 2020
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| Posted:
Jun 19, 2023 - 18:56 |
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The current rules don't have a turn time limit, so away with the time out button would be consistent.
Add a average turn time statistic to the coach profile.
Myself would prefer a hard 4 minute timeout combined with a pause button, that hides the boardstate, but not the chat for real life problems. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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| Posted:
Jun 20, 2023 - 02:28 |
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IF the client recognizes disconnects much more often then it use to, and stops the clock accordingly, then I think the time bank added to 3 minute turns is an elegant solution. If it is popular in BB3, a more widely advertised venue, then it could be well received here as well, especially if the 4 minute turn is a relic of ages past that FUMBBL just clings to.
Coding might be an issue, and I admit ignorance on that front.
The other suggestion, that the Time Out button remains inactive for the game unless activated by any player, is an amazing, 'outside of the box' solution. A 30 second cool down would apply when activated the 1st time, but that would be fair warning, once made live. It does not address a disconnect problem, if there still is one, but the community might be ready to move on from this threat. I don't think I ever will be, though, despite my vastly improved internet connection.
Coding might be an issue, and I admit ignorance on that front.
Never use the Time Out button. Ask yourself why you would ever use it, and see if you can answer honestly. What do you gain, and what does the community lose? The cost/benefit ratio does not benefit the FUMBBL community, imo. |
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Join the wait-list. Watch the action. Leave the Empire. Come to Bretonnia! |
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BeanBelly
Joined: Nov 14, 2019
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| Posted:
Jun 20, 2023 - 09:57 |
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| badger89 wrote: | | Bullet (1 mins turns), Blitz (2mins turns), Rapid (3 mins turns) and Classic (4mins turns) format. |
7’s could use 2mins turns |
_________________
Painting myself into a corner |
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C0ddlefish
Joined: Sep 17, 2019
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| Posted:
Jun 20, 2023 - 10:31 |
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| The_Murker wrote: |
Never use the Time Out button. Ask yourself why you would ever use it, and see if you can answer honestly. What do you gain, and what does the community lose? The cost/benefit ratio does not benefit the FUMBBL community, imo. |
I was thinking there's potentially a hypothesis that using the timeout button actually makes the games you play longer.
Assumption: It is unusual for someone to take 4+ mins on more than 1 or 2 turns a match
Let's say I hit that timeout button the first time a coach reaches 4 mins. To me there are 3 responses:
1) "fair enough, I'll keep all my remaining turns under 4 mins". This was most likely to happen whether the button was pressed or not, and could certainly have been addressed with a quick in match chat.
2) "oh, it's like that is it". That coach now slows down to make a point and take 3-4 mins every turn
3) ".....". Disconnect and gone. This might eventually net you a concession win but still take your time to request it, take up admin time and lock out your team for a few days. Or it's just an annulled match.
Hopefully on most occasions it'll be 1) but 2) and 3) to me are definitely going to happen on some occasions |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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| Posted:
Jun 20, 2023 - 11:06 |
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I like the idea to create competitive "Blitz!" tourneys with automatic timeout which can be configured (1 mins, 2 mins whatever) despite technically challenging I fear.
But in general I disagree with the limit of 2-3 mins turn. 4 mins per turn for me is something reasonable and I would just add a "bonus" or time bank of 4 mins to give everybody during the match the possibility to run one turn of 4-8 minutes. As I wrote in another thread, I never experienced "spite" slow coaches and usually the match duration is in average always between 60 mins and 90 mins.
And it is certainly very true what koadah says that a coach is much more likely to be disgusted by someone who suddenly calls timeout and leaves the site than someone who is bored because his opponent is playing slowly. Just look at the history on the forums of how many people complain about timeouts compared to those who complain that the game on Fumbbl is too slow.
And... final remark: I think that is better to lose a match because my opponent exceeded the time in one turn and did a super job, than winning a game because i called the timeout at 4 mins 1 sec just before my opponent scoring: Would you be proud of you to win in this way?
After all, TT works this way, BB is not (anymore) a "time" game |
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Spence
Joined: Dec 05, 2012
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| Posted:
Jun 20, 2023 - 11:28 |
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If you can't do it under the time limit, you've failed to do it.
If your opponent is pressing the timeout button you should apologise to them for failing to end your own turn at the appropriate juncture. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Jun 20, 2023 - 11:35 |
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| C0ddlefish wrote: |
1) "fair enough, I'll keep all my remaining turns under 4 mins". This was most likely to happen whether the button was pressed or not, and could certainly have been addressed with a quick in match chat.
|
I can think of at least 2 very good coaches who actually needed a time out to keep their turns within 4 minutes;
| C0ddlefish wrote: |
2) "oh, it's like that is it". That coach now slows down to make a point and take 3-4 mins every turn
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Quit the game and ask an admin to join the game so he can watch the intentional time wasting. Playing slow is against this site rule: "Intentionally delaying the game by for example not ending your turn or by waiting for extended periods of time before moving is not allowed."
| C0ddlefish wrote: |
3) ".....". Disconnect and gone. This might eventually net you a concession win but still take your time to request it, take up admin time and lock out your team for a few days. Or it's just an annulled match. |
Report and get the win. Yes, it's time consuming, but better than not getting the win like in the past, when concession by admin was not possible.
An automated time out and automated concession after 15 minute disconnection would speed up everything, but I guess it's not what Christer wants.
Sad, because an online game really would benefit from having everything automated to run smoothly, save time and not to bother admins. Also, automatic time out would remove the endless debate about the morality of it. |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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| Posted:
Jun 20, 2023 - 12:15 |
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| Spence wrote: | If you can't do it under the time limit, you've failed to do it.
If your opponent is pressing the timeout button you should apologise to them for failing to end your own turn at the appropriate juncture. |
In no official rules of the game is written that someone must play a turn of BloodBowl in 4 mins sharp.
Timeout is an optional feature.
All that is said about timeout is speculation until there is not a clear rule about timeout which today on no G&W manual exists. this is a fact. the rest is speculation |
Last edited by RDaneel on %b %20, %2023 - %13:%Jun; edited 1 time in total |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 20, 2023 - 12:17 |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 20, 2023 - 12:22 |
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| RDaneel wrote: | | Spence wrote: | If you can't do it under the time limit, you've failed to do it.
If your opponent is pressing the timeout button you should apologise to them for failing to end your own turn at the appropriate juncture. |
I deeply disagree with this statement
In no official rules of the game is written that someone must play a turn of BloodBowl in 4 mins sharp.
Timeout is an optional feature.
All that is said about timeout is speculation until there is not a clear rule about timeout which today on no G&W manual exists. this is a fact. the rest is speculation |
The Commissioner's word is still law.
GW's word only matters as far as the Commissioner wishes to acknowledge it.  |
_________________
[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
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RDaneel
Joined: Feb 24, 2023
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 Posted:
Jun 20, 2023 - 12:44 |
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| koadah wrote: |
The Commissioner's word is still law.
GW's word only matters as far as the Commissioner wishes to acknowledge it. |
Yes the Commisioner word is the law
And this is the Law of FUMBBL : https://fumbbl.com/p/help?op=rules
Where is it written that you must finish one turn in 4 minutes?
Intentional delay is forbidden.
Someone who exceed only one time in the whole match 4 mins cannot be considered someome who intentionally is delay the game.
@Spence : Apologizing for exceeding timeout is good manners
just as it is good manners to use the timeout button carefully not as if it were a cleaver |
Last edited by RDaneel on %b %20, %2023 - %13:%Jun; edited 1 time in total |
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moph
Joined: Sep 16, 2020
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| Posted:
Jun 20, 2023 - 13:07 |
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The Law dodges the question of when and how to use the time out button.
But there is this:
"Unless you state otherwise, you are expected to be able to play for 90 minutes."
90 minutes would be under 3 min turns in average. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jun 20, 2023 - 13:37 |
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| RDaneel wrote: |
Where is it written that if you can't finish one turn in 4 minutes you are a failure?
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Spence did NOT say "you are a failure".
He said "you've failed to do it."
That is very different.
You have failed to do it in the allotted time.
The rule does not have to be written to be a rule. Though it would help.
The rule can be inferred from the fact that the timeout button is enabled.
People who played previous versions will understand this.
People who are new with this version may be surprised.
They should figure it out after the first time. |
_________________
[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
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