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2016-02-17 21:49:53
15 votes, rating 3.5
15 votes, rating 3.5
PLAY MORE LEAGUE
Start of rant:
The first few hundred games on fumbbl I played mainly in the ranked division. I liked the ability to choose my own team and the opponent. However, as time progressed I noted that I got the same or pretty similar offers again and again and again: dorfs and cdorfs that happily offered to play against my gobbos, zons or elven teams, high tv cpomb teams that offered to play against anybody - except against my chaos or CD, plus a lot of coaches who never ever offered any game nor accepted any of my offers. Of course there have been some positive exceptions too. Guys who offer to play against almost everybody. However, most of the time even those brave coaches enter the fray with ultra-bash teams only. Can't remember any day when a PE or woodies team challenged every or even most of my teams. Some days I offered games and waited for offers an hour or more without any half-decent matchup. Frustrating, a waste of time.
Then some day in Q4 2015 looking for a game outside league (far and away my favourite division) I discovered ARR, liked the idea, made a PE team and jumped into blackbox. The first games were very encouraging. No endless waiting, a lot of fun and great diversity. Bingo. I had rediscovered blackbox. Some weeks ago I saw the CoS announcements. Hhmm, maybe I should try to get a team in shape and participate in that major for the first time. I concentrated efforts on the PE team (TV 1540) team and a CD team that already had a few games played (TV 1360 that day) and activated both teams. Since that day I played 14 blackbox games. In 9 of these games my team had a TV >1500. And here is the distribution of opponents: 5x Chaos, 1 x CD, 1 x Nurgle, 1 X Skaven, 1 x Woodies. Not exactly what I was hoping to find. 4 out of the last 6 games against Chaos, and the last game topped it: My PE with TV 1650 (the highest TV ever for any of my box teams to date) against - tatata - TV 1900 Chaos. Great stuff, really. Is that what I have to expect when I want to play medium to high TV games? Large TV gaps and a disproportionate number of cpomb teams? I know it's a small sample and will give it another try in the not so distant future, but recent experience is pretty negative.
Which finally brings me to the blog title. If recent experience is a guide I am more or less done with both ranked and box. Should free up a lot of time.
Rant over.
Edited blog title from "Saving time" to Play more league. See below why
The first few hundred games on fumbbl I played mainly in the ranked division. I liked the ability to choose my own team and the opponent. However, as time progressed I noted that I got the same or pretty similar offers again and again and again: dorfs and cdorfs that happily offered to play against my gobbos, zons or elven teams, high tv cpomb teams that offered to play against anybody - except against my chaos or CD, plus a lot of coaches who never ever offered any game nor accepted any of my offers. Of course there have been some positive exceptions too. Guys who offer to play against almost everybody. However, most of the time even those brave coaches enter the fray with ultra-bash teams only. Can't remember any day when a PE or woodies team challenged every or even most of my teams. Some days I offered games and waited for offers an hour or more without any half-decent matchup. Frustrating, a waste of time.
Then some day in Q4 2015 looking for a game outside league (far and away my favourite division) I discovered ARR, liked the idea, made a PE team and jumped into blackbox. The first games were very encouraging. No endless waiting, a lot of fun and great diversity. Bingo. I had rediscovered blackbox. Some weeks ago I saw the CoS announcements. Hhmm, maybe I should try to get a team in shape and participate in that major for the first time. I concentrated efforts on the PE team (TV 1540) team and a CD team that already had a few games played (TV 1360 that day) and activated both teams. Since that day I played 14 blackbox games. In 9 of these games my team had a TV >1500. And here is the distribution of opponents: 5x Chaos, 1 x CD, 1 x Nurgle, 1 X Skaven, 1 x Woodies. Not exactly what I was hoping to find. 4 out of the last 6 games against Chaos, and the last game topped it: My PE with TV 1650 (the highest TV ever for any of my box teams to date) against - tatata - TV 1900 Chaos. Great stuff, really. Is that what I have to expect when I want to play medium to high TV games? Large TV gaps and a disproportionate number of cpomb teams? I know it's a small sample and will give it another try in the not so distant future, but recent experience is pretty negative.
Which finally brings me to the blog title. If recent experience is a guide I am more or less done with both ranked and box. Should free up a lot of time.
Rant over.
Edited blog title from "Saving time" to Play more league. See below why
Comments
Posted by Chainsaw on 2016-02-17 22:03:44
Your av7 team hads 250TV of inducements against clawpombers?
You should celebrate that! A wizard and babes, or a wizard and another apo...
In it to win it! Stop worrying too much about the bash. XD
You should celebrate that! A wizard and babes, or a wizard and another apo...
In it to win it! Stop worrying too much about the bash. XD
Posted by Meanandugl on 2016-02-17 22:14:39
That game actually was less desastrous than I had expected because I was quite lucky, especially in H1. 1:2 loss only and no perm injuries. However, 5 x claw, 5 x mb, 3 x tackle, 6 x guard (and just 1 PO) and a stat-feak ballcarrier are too much to handle. Btw I took wiz (who failed totally) plus apo.
Posted by MattDakka on 2016-02-17 22:23:40
Play only teams under TV 1500 in Black Box, you should be fine.
Posted by Loew on 2016-02-17 22:29:52
that is my box experience, too...sorry
Posted by harvestmouse on 2016-02-17 22:51:56
So diversity is the problem? With Box we kind of know that right, if you want to grow your teams anyway.
In Ranked, looks to me you've picked too hard. Your overall win percentage is high 63%, however if you look at box, ranked and stunty it's fairly normal. In ranked though it's sky high.
I looked at your Skaven and Pro Elves. Both look to have had a healthy amount of diversity. I mean light teams should really play light teams a little bit more than heavy teams. However your Skaven team has a positive cas record, that probably shouldn't really be the case for a team that's playing a diverse mix of teams.
Conclusion. Box is a meta division, it's not diverse. Either you meta your teams or you accept that you won't get a diverse mix.
Ranked you will struggle to get games being a super star, however you've been meta gaming your games. I think if you let go of that a little you will can get more diversity. Unless better coaches simply meta all competitive division.........there's some merit in that argument.
In Ranked, looks to me you've picked too hard. Your overall win percentage is high 63%, however if you look at box, ranked and stunty it's fairly normal. In ranked though it's sky high.
I looked at your Skaven and Pro Elves. Both look to have had a healthy amount of diversity. I mean light teams should really play light teams a little bit more than heavy teams. However your Skaven team has a positive cas record, that probably shouldn't really be the case for a team that's playing a diverse mix of teams.
Conclusion. Box is a meta division, it's not diverse. Either you meta your teams or you accept that you won't get a diverse mix.
Ranked you will struggle to get games being a super star, however you've been meta gaming your games. I think if you let go of that a little you will can get more diversity. Unless better coaches simply meta all competitive division.........there's some merit in that argument.
Posted by NerdBird on 2016-02-17 22:52:00
5X claw is essentially 100K in worthless skills against pro elves.
They do more damage to my high elf team but I still beat Chaos more than they beat me..... https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&showstats=1&team_id=770632
Humans are really tough on Helves IMO because they match you in speed and can really dish out the pain.
They do more damage to my high elf team but I still beat Chaos more than they beat me..... https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&showstats=1&team_id=770632
Humans are really tough on Helves IMO because they match you in speed and can really dish out the pain.
Posted by Chainsaw on 2016-02-17 23:01:05
Exactly Nerdbird. This was 250k in inducements (which most agility teams should love) and 100k wasted TV for the opponent on top of that.
Posted by harvestmouse on 2016-02-17 23:11:31
Well one of the mng was a blitzer. I haven't checked the replay, but it could have been claw that made the difference. If it did, then not so wasted 100k.
Posted by Rbthma on 2016-02-17 23:57:57
Agree with Meanandugl - I've noticed a lot more bash teams in Ranked lately and less diversity. I started a couple of Box teams and have been playing them when the only offers you get against elves in Ranked are tackle-spam teams.
Posted by Meanandugl on 2016-02-18 00:59:54
Harvestmouse, you are right, I have done my share of cherrypicking in ranked too, point taken. It's quite tempting to pick, isn't it? However, the majority of cherrypicking happened sometime ago. Meanwhile most of the time I offer games for a bunch of different teams (Chaos, CD, Lizards, all kinds of elves, skaven, slann, undead, gobbos) and typically get no offers for the bashers at all, and no offers apart from bashers for my non-bash team. Coach ratings and team TVs hardly make any difference. All this is not new, but in my experience it has become worse in ranked. But the major disappointment for me is my recent blackbox experience. I really enjoyed blackbox and thought for a few weeks blackbox would overcome the issues I had with ranked, but apparently that's true only for low TV. So the main reason for this blog is my disappointment with blackbox. Nothing new for most of the players, but I wanted to vent my disappointment.
Posted by Meanandugl on 2016-02-18 01:03:30
Maybe I should have chosen a different title like: League it is! I play in four leagues, enjoy this part of fumbbl most and highly recommend it.
Posted by harvestmouse on 2016-02-18 01:08:10
Sure it is easy to pick, I also picked badly in Ranked. I do think you are wrong about coach ranking, I think that has a lot to do with it and your problem for getting games.
I dunno, I think looking at your teams, who you play etc. Diversity is very important to you. I think in Blackbox you will always struggle, unless you stay below that 1350 threshold. For me you are better off in Ranked where you can control the rosters you play.
I dunno, I think looking at your teams, who you play etc. Diversity is very important to you. I think in Blackbox you will always struggle, unless you stay below that 1350 threshold. For me you are better off in Ranked where you can control the rosters you play.
Posted by Burnalot on 2016-02-18 01:15:29
Yeah, leagues are the best way to play the game.
Posted by MattDakka on 2016-02-18 05:05:53
Never give up!
Posted by NerdBird on 2016-02-18 05:30:32
You could save time and money by switching to Geico.
Posted by Meanandugl on 2016-02-18 08:38:02
Geico, the Berkshire Hathaway company? Would have to move to the US and I am not that desperate. As long as I enjoy playing in leagues as much as I do it's no big deal to cut back on ranked and box.
Posted by Meanandugl on 2016-02-18 08:50:23
Just read Castleman's blog about his gobbo experience. Maybe that's an alternative for a while. Play some gobbo games in ranked. Those guys tend to get lots of offers so I won't have to wait. And with gobbos you KNOW you are going to lose tons of games and players. May improve my ability to endure losses, and to lose with style, dignity and less whining.
Posted by ianuk77 on 2016-02-18 09:04:57
I watch alot of games and replays, and in my personal opinion high TV blood bowl is a disappointment. Who rolls better CAS from spammed piling on wins.
I guess we all have an idea of what we want blood bowl to be and many people enjoy that aspect of it.
I think low-mid level league play is really my sweet spot. Why don't you join a league like hubba (I think) where everyone is assigned a race randomly?
I guess we all have an idea of what we want blood bowl to be and many people enjoy that aspect of it.
I think low-mid level league play is really my sweet spot. Why don't you join a league like hubba (I think) where everyone is assigned a race randomly?
Posted by Meanandugl on 2016-02-18 09:19:36
I play in OWCC, OBBA, WIL (all recommendable, even at higher TV) and since a couple of weeks in KPL (not sure if I like Khemri in the long run, but it's a new experience and Painstate's fluff is awesome). OBBA has nerfed PO, which I like, and the different divisions offer games for bb experts and average Joes alike. WIL hasn't nerfed anything (to my knowledge) and is a hard place to survive for agile teams, but has top coaches and the league is pretty diverse even in the Prem. And OWCC is very well run by Gjopie, has a unique set-up of short swiss style seasons (5 games), followed by playoffs and a team competition that pitches the two divisions against each other, which adds spice.
I really should have chosen a different blog title: PLAY MORE LEAGUE!
I really should have chosen a different blog title: PLAY MORE LEAGUE!
Posted by Patator on 2016-02-18 10:48:18
I rated 6 for the title and the conclusion : play more league !
And for me it's not about difficulty or diversity (although diversity helps a lot to make it enjoyable) but it's about fun and fluff. Leagues gives us an history and make our team part of a group, it shares our experience not only in game and with our opponent but between game and with all the other coaches. So to me it makes fumbbl more like what BB is at the begining : a social game with lot of interactions, whereas box and ranked are more like a video game.
Nothing wrong with that (i played a lot of it too), but i like league and fluff, and collectivity and above all else FUN the most :)
And for me it's not about difficulty or diversity (although diversity helps a lot to make it enjoyable) but it's about fun and fluff. Leagues gives us an history and make our team part of a group, it shares our experience not only in game and with our opponent but between game and with all the other coaches. So to me it makes fumbbl more like what BB is at the begining : a social game with lot of interactions, whereas box and ranked are more like a video game.
Nothing wrong with that (i played a lot of it too), but i like league and fluff, and collectivity and above all else FUN the most :)
Posted by Meanandugl on 2016-02-18 11:03:04
+1 Patator
Posted by pythrr on 2016-02-18 18:59:14
yes, League is win
Posted by DeZigma on 2016-02-18 19:14:06
I started here at Fumbbl with ranked. I had no idea about the game(i did't played the dame since 2nd edition), about the "divisions" and as newbie without any experiance i was hardly picked. My behavior was to took the first game comin in ... and after several nice games in the beginning, i was beeing heavly picked by some CD, destroying my complete team. I don't know, but maybe it's like being "raped". I build the team up again and was again destroyed. Realizing beeing picked i didn't get anymore "good" games! That divison is not for newbies.
Thatswhy i stoped and don't play ranked anymore, exeption are tournaments. I guess that is still a good envoirement.
If i need a quick game, i take box. It comes what comes and if you dont care about loosing players, you will have a lot of fun.
But for sure the best envoirement (at least for me) is league! Most of them are full of fluff, great coaches, trash talk and tons of fun.
Thatswhy i stoped and don't play ranked anymore, exeption are tournaments. I guess that is still a good envoirement.
If i need a quick game, i take box. It comes what comes and if you dont care about loosing players, you will have a lot of fun.
But for sure the best envoirement (at least for me) is league! Most of them are full of fluff, great coaches, trash talk and tons of fun.
Posted by tussock on 2016-02-19 01:15:45
You gotta play a different game against the big bash in the box.
Don't score until you absolutely have to, don't press them too hard on D unless you can see a clear turnover and score opportunity (or have a good shot at stopping them dead on turn 8/16 where that still matters), try to pick on soft targets in the meantime (especially tacklers) and have a good fouler or three to hit any greedy POMBers that come after you.
Threaten a bit, make them cage up, don't let them advance too easy, but screen the open space with good spacing that limits the numbers they can get in base contact and gives you a chance to hit back. Get away from the Mighty Blow first, preferably by knocking it over. Do not let them hit your better players, screen like they've got the ball even on D. Spread out to limit their Guards, E-W as well as N-S.
If you get a good gang-foul opportunity, leave a few off to screen it so they can't swarm you. Feel free to foul with someone nice you really want to survive a while longer.
Tents is the real elf-killer though. Do not let a beast or other tent big guy get more than 1 elf at a time, if at all possible.
But also, leagues are awesome fun. You're still going to get wrecked if you push too hard against mass POMBers though. Don't try to win by 2 or 3, don't give them those extra hits on the line, learn to 1-turn and 2-turn for the win at 8/16.
Don't score until you absolutely have to, don't press them too hard on D unless you can see a clear turnover and score opportunity (or have a good shot at stopping them dead on turn 8/16 where that still matters), try to pick on soft targets in the meantime (especially tacklers) and have a good fouler or three to hit any greedy POMBers that come after you.
Threaten a bit, make them cage up, don't let them advance too easy, but screen the open space with good spacing that limits the numbers they can get in base contact and gives you a chance to hit back. Get away from the Mighty Blow first, preferably by knocking it over. Do not let them hit your better players, screen like they've got the ball even on D. Spread out to limit their Guards, E-W as well as N-S.
If you get a good gang-foul opportunity, leave a few off to screen it so they can't swarm you. Feel free to foul with someone nice you really want to survive a while longer.
Tents is the real elf-killer though. Do not let a beast or other tent big guy get more than 1 elf at a time, if at all possible.
But also, leagues are awesome fun. You're still going to get wrecked if you push too hard against mass POMBers though. Don't try to win by 2 or 3, don't give them those extra hits on the line, learn to 1-turn and 2-turn for the win at 8/16.
Posted by PainState on 2016-02-19 03:26:55
So, I should play more league action because you are miffed?
I will take it under consideration, I do not want your feelings hurt.
:}
I will take it under consideration, I do not want your feelings hurt.
:}
Posted by PainState on 2016-02-19 03:28:40
BTW
KPL also laid down the nerf on PO.
KPL also laid down the nerf on PO.