Posted by Anzelak on 2014-03-15 12:45:35
Who are you playing as? Who are you playing again?
I think there is actually quite a lot of strategy to the game.
I preferred it to Blood Bowl for a little while, but I came crawling back to Nuffle and his block dice.
Posted by Garion on 2014-03-15 12:55:13
just playing out the box games at the moment, not sure I want to spend any more money on it yet. It just seems there is no real strategy to it obviously you need to select which players to do stuff with but really you are just scoring and scoring and scoring. I don't see where the tactics really com in to it. I may be wrong of course, but is a stall possible?
Posted by Anzelak on 2014-03-15 12:58:52
Some quick things:
At all times though you need to remember to leave enough players back to stop your opponent scoring too easily.
Take out the opponents main scoring threats if you can.
If you get the right number on the ref card, use them to block players and move the foul-spotting zone. Some teams you want to get the ref away from the action so you can foul.
Usr threat zones to make sure your slams are likely to come out on top.
Hitting guards from behind because they can only dodge. If you're trying to thin the opponent's ranks, hitting anyone with 5+ speed from behind is a good tactic.
I normally block the 3/4 scoring hexes with a player to prevent an east 4-pointer for teams good at scoring. Blocking the other zones feels like a bit of a waste though.
Coaching dice should go to the catcher not the thrower.
I was getting beaten horrible playing Orks in every game. I could only do well with high scoring teams (corporation, judwan).
The new "Cthulhuy" team the Nameless are totally broken in my opinion.
I have the most fun playing the cheating "Elves", who dive. You are relying on lucky ref dice though.
This: http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1542230/theflamingkite is quite a good set up for Orks.
In my opinion, the corporation team are stronger than the Humans (Orks don't have strikers who benefit from bagging extra actions). Dreadball suffers from innately unbalanced teams.
Sorry if these aren't really that helpful.
Posted by Anzelak on 2014-03-15 13:05:04
Sorry. Missed your question.
To stall, you would set up a rough "cage" around one of the walls probably. But I don't think you should. Dreadball really is nothing like Blood Bowl. I think it should feel a little bit more like basketball (which I don't like) or hockey (which I really do). It's supposed to be end to end.
It took me a few dozen games to realise that it isn't just scoring and scoring, it's a very rewarding game that relies an awful lot on positioning and making sure you're always rolling more favourable dice than your opponent.
Hurry up and learn it so you can write more plasmoids guides to teach us noobs ;) haha.
Posted by harvestmouse on 2014-03-15 13:08:46
So Garion writes Plasmoid's guides for him!!!! We learn something new everyday. Sounds like it sucks compared to Grand Line Bowl!
Posted by Anzelak on 2014-03-15 13:13:35
Grand Line Bowl?
Posted by Anzelak on 2014-03-15 13:14:13
And, yeah, he's done a good few that have helped me: http://www.plasmoids.dk/bbowl/LRB6Playbooks.htm
Posted by Garion on 2014-03-15 13:57:17
I dont write them all, I only wrote the good ones :P
for plasmoid I wrote - Lizardmen, Wood Elves, Skaven and Chaos Pact, the pact one isnt as good its basically an unfinished version but reall what is there to tell other than CPOMB up.
Posted by Garion on 2014-03-15 14:00:33
Back on topic. I get what you mean, but it is impossible to protect the ball really, to easy to steal it. Also defending isnt very easy either, just push the guard out the way then score.
Posted by Garion on 2014-03-15 14:02:10
to be fair, the norse one is good too, but again that was written by another Fumbbl coach - Carnis. The human one is good too written by Joemanji. Apart from those the rest are pretty terrible.
Posted by MattDakka on 2014-03-15 14:26:53
"Dreadball suffers from innately unbalanced teams."
This, and some cards can be game breaking ("The ball shatters" for example).
Posted by Anzelak on 2014-03-15 14:43:53
Yeah, you're right on the money with the ball shatters.
I think it depends what you want from a game. We have a strongly themed TT league that's a lot of fun. Games play in under an hour.
It isn't perfect (and it's becoming something of a money-spinner too with the way they're offering things) but it's fit for purpose.
The skilling up is where it falls down even harder. Though having a Guard with 360 vision placed in the centre of the 3/4 scoring zone can do a pretty good job of guarding it, by blocking the 4 point and putting a threat on any 3 point attempts.
Garion, you can make it harder to get hits on the ball carrier/key defender by managing where threat hexes are (and hence having an attacker lose dice on the slam). So in that Ork set up example, it's going to be nearly impossible to dislodge the guard protecting the 3/4 zone.
Posted by Overhamsteren on 2014-03-15 14:44:07
I'm definitely experiencing the same things but I am also a noob.
Haven't tried defending my 3 point hex with 3 players yet, apparently it's a good idea. Maybe the game opens up with more possibilities after one or both players do that...
Posted by MattDakka on 2014-03-15 14:47:12
Out of curiosity, Garion, have you ever tried Elfball?
Posted by Garion on 2014-03-15 14:49:22
nope and I will never play it. Galak is a cock and will never get my money.
Posted by Anzelak on 2014-03-15 14:50:09
Come on. That cries out for context. :D
Posted by MattDakka on 2014-03-15 14:56:42
Rules are available for free in PDF, no need to spend money.
Making the board is easy, I printed a pitch on paper, then glued it to cardboard and painted it, you can use BB miniatures and d6 to play.
I get that you don't like Galak (I'm not a fan of him as well) but he didn't make the whole ruleset, and there can be some good even in things made by people we don't like.
Game is one thing, its maker a different one in my opinion.
Posted by Garion on 2014-03-15 14:59:22
its in context, he designed Elf Ball.
anyway. The problem with dreadball is if you commit to guarding specific areas on the pitch then you just leave your self exposed. no cage or stall can protect a ball carrier as you have enough actions to knock the ball on the floor then scatter it.
I hope I am wrong, but it really does look like it is just score score score score score. the bash games doesnt really work imo, players are back too quickly.
Posted by MattDakka on 2014-03-15 15:07:48
Phil Bowen, Max Haider, Eric Reiter are in the credits as rules assistants. Anyway, I'm not trying to persuade you.
Posted by Garion on 2014-03-15 15:11:23
another funny thing about Galak. Everything he touches he destroys. Fanatic Magazine, going perfectly, then Galak writes an article - snotling team, magazine gets cancelled. Bloodbowl BBRC working in perfect harmony with GW, Galak joins, BBRC disbanded, bloodbowl left in a complete mess. he's cursed I tells ya :P
Posted by JimmyFantastic on 2014-03-15 15:12:20
Basketball is score score score but there are tactics right? I imagine it's a similar kind of idea.
Posted by harvestmouse on 2014-03-15 15:21:05
Galak's come up with some good stuff. There were certainly inferior members on the BBRC, if not all of them.
Galak's problems are he doesn't take criticism well, gets involved in petty debating and refuses to look at legitimate problems.
They're from a different world though. Here isn't on their agenda, and in which case they did a great job.
Grand Bowl is the best BB spin off ever. I just made up a review that gave it 10/10!
Posted by Garion on 2014-03-15 15:27:51
he also surrounds him self with people that kiss his behind, most of whom seem to be fairly clueless. personally i think the doubleskulls is better and when neoliminal left things took a real nose dive. But I guess this is all for a different thread.
And yes Jimmy you are 100% correct now I think about it. its just like basketball which sucks imo.
Posted by harvestmouse on 2014-03-15 16:07:37
Neo left before lrb4 though, didn't he? Doubleskulls strikes me as a thoroughly decent chap and would make a good lead. Also, I'm a big fan of the Oz scene.
However I'm not sure he's in a broad enough bracket. The Oz scene is very big on table top, maybe bigger than anywhere else. And so has developed in it's own particular way. Also he is 100% TT (I believe) so isn't really in an experienced position or likely to want to cater outside of his experience.
That's the impression I get anyway. I dislike some of his interpretations as well. Don't get me wrong though, he's certainly done a lot for the game, and we're lucky to have him.
Posted by Garion on 2014-03-15 16:15:17
Neo left after lrb4, he was the main man up until that point, the person JJ approached to construct the BBRC.
Posted by Garion on 2014-03-15 16:16:46
just checked an he actually left during lrb5.
Posted by Anzelak on 2014-03-15 17:25:41
Players don't come back that quickly. If you knock out a guy for 1, 2, 3 it only ticks down at the end of their turn. It's actually quite easy to get 3+ injuries (deaths) as well. Even if it's 1, 2, 3 they have to waste an action sprinting the player back on and into position.
Removing players is the only way you're going to win with Orks. If you're focusing on just scoring with them you'll lose. Priority has to be killing strikers.
Posted by Garion on 2014-03-15 17:59:40
yup so it seems, gobos are a bit crap it seems.
Posted by Overhamsteren on 2014-03-15 18:37:04
Gobbos are pretty decent jacks(better than humans) but yeah jacks are generally a bit underpowered.
Posted by pizzamogul on 2014-03-15 20:20:43
Is there a client you can use to play this game online? I'd like to check it out, but heading to the local gaming store and playing with kids < half my age just doesn't seem like a good option for my aged self anymore.
Posted by Garion on 2014-03-15 20:50:52
Nope there is no client. I'm not sure about it personally. I really get the feeling it lacks any tactical depth but I might be wrong, plus it is still in its infancy really.
Posted by MattDakka on 2014-03-15 21:01:19
@pizzamogul: be devious: bring your kid to the local gaming store, pretend to learn the game in order to teach him, while actually you use him as a cover-up to learn the game for yourself.
Posted by Lorebass on 2014-03-15 21:47:06
Its unfortunate this actually turned into a real discussion... not an "emo" in sight. But to answer the question: "Dreadball, am I doing it wrong?"
Answer: "Absolutely! For starters you don't call BloodBowl 'DreadBowl'."
But yeah, the game is way unbalanced and does seem to play like basketball... you win by trying to make the guy miss the score 10% of the time...
Posted by Anzelak on 2014-03-16 01:53:16
You can play the game through Vassal. Which isn't really a "client" per se, but it's a way of playing it online.
Here's the link: http://www.vassalengine.org/
Posted by pizzamogul on 2014-03-16 12:33:57
@MattDakka My son is 14 and wouldn't consider going anywhere he might be seen with his old man, no less to a gaming store. Perhaps if I chloroformed him 1st in some sort of a "Weekend of Gaming at Bernie's" episode...
Posted by MattDakka on 2014-03-16 14:15:29
@pizzamogul: too bad :(. I had the opposite problem, my father wasn't never interested in tabletop gaming.
Posted by Purplegoo on 2014-03-16 23:37:43
I played it once. It seemed horrible and pointless to me. I can flip a coin to see who wins much more quickly. But of you enjoy it / I'm wrong, good luck to you.
Posted by Garion on 2014-03-17 12:06:25
yup, seems to be my experience so far as well. Not very impressed, not a fan of the models either tbh.
Posted by Dan-Da-Man on 2014-03-17 18:02:27
Posted by sann0638 on 2014-03-20 17:24:18
DB hasn't grabbed me, I spent a long time bigging up Elfball, but I've come back to BB. Quite a fan of the ogre playbook, though it is my take on the playstyle... :)
Posted by Garion on 2014-11-25 20:33:21
yup bad game