Posted by Shimin on 2010-04-23 22:50:00

Generally I cant say, but i often play a bit on the fast side. In a tight spot, when i have to think things through i can use 10+ minutes on a game. Usually I dont complain about opponents unless they are dual game slow (or at least what could look like it). That usually is beyond 2 hours. Often elves/skaven and their "kin" (in movement, at least) use more time pr turn than bashing teams (orcs/dwarves and khemri and their "kin"). I only make mention of it if i am in doubt if he is actually thinking his moves through or just playing something on the side.

Posted by blader4411 on 2010-04-23 22:51:20

Spending more than 3 minutes per turn ON AVERAGE is too slow for my liking, and for a reasonable pick-up game, in my opinion. It is different in tournaments and the like of course, and no-one generally cares if you're slow for only ONE OR TWO turns, during a sticky situation. We all have to go slowly at times like that, especially with things like Guard involved. However, 3 minutes or more per turn over 16 turns is... Someone I wouldn't want to play against a second time.

-Blader

Posted by BiggieB on 2010-04-23 23:07:27

I dont mind an opponent playing slow, thats well within his rights, what I mind is people who take more time then 4 min per turn. Kalimars client has an excellent force turnover feature :)

Posted by Zombie69 on 2010-04-23 23:44:58

I agree with you Resarf, if they have less than 90 minutes for the game, they should tell you before the game starts. Otherwise, they shouldn't complain 30 minutes in.

I don't think it's rude to ask people to play faster (unless you ask every single turn). However, telling you 30 minutes in that they have only 15 minutes left is not only bad behavior, but also against the rules. It's fine to have only 45 minutes to play the game, but in that case you need to tell the other coach before the game starts and ask him whether he thinks he can finish the game in that time.

Posted by screech on 2010-04-23 23:59:10

There's no hard and fast rule I guess, you kinda just know.
Like when I have a decimated team left to play, and you have the ball and are up a point, it should not take you more then 2 mins to move your players.

Posted by maysrill on 2010-04-24 00:52:04

If you're taking more than 2 min per turn, you're slow.

Games should be in the 45 minute range (or less) unless one or both players are new.

Posted by Timlagor on 2010-04-24 01:05:23

A game that takes an hour is fine. Mine often go slightly over that (and sometimes much less) but I do consider myself to be fairly slow -this may be partly because I like to play a variety of teams ratehr than honing my ability to play a single roster to a razor edge.
I've even been known to go into reserve time [gasp!]
90 minutes is going to be too long mostly and over 90 minutes is definitely inconsiderate when it's all on one side. You should also make an effort not to take too long when you are massacring the other coach's team: being slaughtered is rarely much fun but being slaughtered slowly can be agonising! ..of course you shouldn't rush enough to give the game away ;)

It's ok to ask people to play faster so long as you are polite about it but you should say beforehand if you have time pressure (90 minutes is the requirement for SMACKs so less than that should be mentioned imo though 60 minutes is usually plenty).

It does annoy me when people have slow java (perhaps not a problem any more) because it's just so agonising to watch the players crawling across the screen even if the actual turns don't take that much longer.

Stalling in terms of game turns is fine but stalling in real time is just rude.


SO yeah.. basically I think you're right.

Posted by benjysmyth on 2010-04-24 01:10:09

Sorry Maysrill, but that is not what is indicated in the site rules.

"Fumbbl Rules; Starting Matches -

Don't start a game where there is a chance you won't be able to finish without your opponent knowing about it. Unless you state otherwise, you are expected to be able to play for 90 minutes."

I don't dispute that we would all like a quick game if possible, but, as stated above, you should be able to play for 90 minutes when and where required, unless you have come to a pregame agreement with the other coach. You can't connect to a game and then start complaining if your opponent turns out to be slower than you would like if he/she is still in compliance with the 90 minute rule.

Posted by Were_M_Eye on 2010-04-24 02:16:39

If both players take 2 min per turn a game will take 64 min and that is without the time seting up players before kick off. Expecting a game to only take 45 min is stupied.

Posted by JellyBelly on 2010-04-24 09:02:02

I really don't like it when my opponent starts asking me to play faster. I'm fully prepared to wait patiently while my oppo takes their turn, and I expect them to return the courtesy. I find it rude and inconsiderate for faster coaches to just expect everyone else to play at the same speed that they do. They can play their turn as fast as they like, but as far as I'm concerned, my turn = my time, and if I need the full 4 minutes to think my tactics through then I'll take it. That is my right within the rules of the game.

I should probably point out that most of my turns take 2-3 mins and my average game time is about an hour, so I don't think I'm a particularly slow coach.

Certain coaches need to learn some patience, not to mention manners.

Posted by Ballcrusher on 2010-04-24 10:51:38

What JellyBelly said. And IMO it's very simple:

The rules say you must have 90 minutes for a game, and you have the right to use 4 minutes per turn if you like.

If you don't have patience to play coaches who use more than 2 minutes per turn, then don't play Blackbox, scheduled Leagues and tourneys, but instead play Ranked where you can ask your opponents how fast they play before setting up a game.

Asking coaches to play faster and writing stuff like "zzzZZZzzzZZZ" in the chat once a game has begun is rude and bad manners.

Posted by JoeMalik on 2010-04-24 11:04:08

"Expecting a game to only take 45 min is stupied" -
Well, most of my games are finished within an hour. 45 min is fast, but happens sometimes. I consider a game that takes 90 min to be slow, but it is acceptable. If it takes longer (a non-tournament game that is), its definitely too long for me. Its within the rules to take 4 min per turn, yes. But it is not neccesary.

I played a tournament game a few weeks ago which went into overtime. Of course such a game takes longer. But this one took almost 3 hours. My opponent needed 4 min every turn, a perfect defense took 5 (!) min. When he had to setup, nothing happened for about 2 min. The only time I waited a few seconds to setup (about 40 sec) he complained about it.
Such behaviour is completely unacceptable

Posted by JellyBelly on 2010-04-24 12:09:04

To add to what Ballcrusher said, coaches who want to play faster, e.g. 2 mins per turn absolute max, can always go and create a league in [L] for faster players. People should accept that if they're going to play in open divisions like [R] and [B] then they're going to end up playing against all kinds of teams and all kinds of coaches.

Posted by BeeRTRuCK on 2010-04-24 18:53:09

i dont mind slow players, i detest people who are constantly afk.

if you need 4 mins a turn no worries, but if you are afk for the start of everyone of your turns for 2-3 min then i will get very annoyed.

Just like people who take SS and always go to "get a drink" during the opponents turn, or take 2-3 mins to use an apo.

Posted by Reisender on 2010-04-25 06:07:52

i dont mind if mz oppo POLITELY asks me to play faster, e.g. when he has sth. he did not expect which makes him want to finish match faster (angry wife, crying children and other real life stuff that you cant control)

being pushy and putting zzzzz and stuff is just bad manners, though

Posted by Arktoris on 2010-04-25 21:53:53

If you don't have 90 mins to play...you shouldn't be playing.

Posted by Tamzarian on 2010-04-27 10:10:27

I definitely cannot finish any game in less than 1 hour due to the fact that my average turn takes about 3 minutes. That, of course, makes me a slow player. Someone wrote that these matters depend on the race you're playing, and I totally agree: some races are less forgiving about placing a player at the wrong point. Someone wrote that it depended on the experience of the coach, and I agree even more on this: if you've played 1000+ matches, you'll probably recognise certain positions and be able to decide on your moves faster.

As long as I'm asked in a polite way, I've no problems at all to try playing faster. I don't want to play as many games as possible but maximise my fun. And I'm willing to try to adopt my play in such a way that it doesn't minimise my opponent's fun.

Posted by Peter_Thorpe on 2010-04-30 13:49:06

it must be said i have had matches take around half an hour, so anyone who says its impossible needs to check there figures (check mine V emphasy, 36 mins if i remember right)

as for taking time, i aggree that being slow consistently can be irritating, but on the same point, the 90 mins thing should be taken seriously, im a fast player, but i always leave enough time just in case. all people need extra time if the move is difficult or things like that

what im saying is take time by all means, but for the love of god dont bother stretching it to 4 mins to overthink moves that youd already planned 2 mins beforehand, or do the sensible thing, and plan moves during an opponents turn?