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The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 19, 2020 - 00:12 Reply with quote Back to top

"played roughly a dozen board game matches in sort of a league setting with the new rules. "

Yeah, exactly. Sounds exactly like a play-tester who might vigorously defend the rules he was 'part of testing.'

So were you involved? Would it be some big secret if you were?

If you were in a room with someone who said what the new passing, or new fouling was INTENDED to do, that would be great to know. I think more people would give a toss about your insight, which is a good thing.

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CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 19, 2020 - 00:28 Reply with quote Back to top

The_Murker wrote:
"played roughly a dozen board game matches in sort of a league setting with the new rules. "

Yeah, exactly. Sounds exactly like a play-tester who might vigorously defend the rules he was 'part of testing.'

So were you involved? Would it be some big secret if you were?

If you were in a room with someone who said what the new passing, or new fouling was INTENDED to do, that would be great to know. I think more people would give a toss about your insight, which is a good thing.


Nope... I have had zero involvement in anything to do with the rules.

We are only a bunch of close friends who played some BB games the last months in Covid-19 isolation and on top of that maybe 10-15 solo games as well just for kicks, what else are you going to do?!?

It might sometimes be hard to set the tone of text and what is an opinion might come across as fact when it is not.

What is in the rules are basically facts... what the intentions are is anyone's guess.

I "suppose" the intention of the new fouling rules was buffed up as they removed skills like "Piling On" and reduced the effect of both "Claw" and "Mighty Blow" (no longer work in opponents turn and don't stack). This shifts the power of attrition to more teams, especially those with easy access to both agility and general skills. I expect that catchers are the new killers in BB2020. Just a hunch... call them fast agile blitz foulers... Wink
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 19, 2020 - 05:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Mighty Blow doesn't work on defence? Didn't know that!
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 19, 2020 - 07:59 Reply with quote Back to top

ClayInfinity wrote:
Mighty Blow doesn't work on defence? Didn't know that!


Yes... that seem to be a new change. Both Claw and Mighty Blow only work when a player is the active part of a Block Action now.

So, it will be "safe" for a non Block player to go down from a Both Down result against a Claw or MB player now. It still is a turn over though... Wink

It is a minor but important change it seems.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 19, 2020 - 12:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Not totally safe, the player could be still injured even with the flat AV roll without Claw/MB.
But yes, trying to block back killers rather than dodging away from them is more appealing now.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 19, 2020 - 13:16 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Not totally safe, the player could be still injured even with the flat AV roll without Claw/MB.
But yes, trying to block back killers rather than dodging away from them is more appealing now.


Hence I put "safe" into a quotation... Wink
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 19, 2020 - 22:15 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Not totally safe, the player could be still injured even with the flat AV roll without Claw/MB.
But yes, trying to block back killers rather than dodging away from them is more appealing now.


Particularly if they have Armbar!!!

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Nov 20, 2020 - 21:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Nothing is going to resemble the inanity of juiced odds to depitch 4 players in a single turn while conforming to the letter of the rules. Except the baby butthurt 'I don't know how to confront and adapt' to the letter of the rules, I guess.
sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 20, 2020 - 23:53 Reply with quote Back to top

I've just noticed that, in BB 2020, if you rolled a 6 arguing the call, your player wasn't sent off and stayed on the pitch.

Another small help for fouling

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 00:49 Reply with quote Back to top

uzkulak wrote:
Third ed, was the fouling edition, not this. It was +2 for DP and you even got spp for fouling then so every team had several DPs. The game was about how to make sure you got your (gang) foul in every turn and on the flip side how to stop your players getting fouled effectively. Just a new type of positional play, people will learn to adjust soon enough, but I dont think it will be so extreme under these rules.

People don't foul enough under the current rules, it needed a buff.
The best part was that a modified 12+ was a kill. Oh, and the +2 applied to both AV and Injury rolls. And there was Argue the Call, and you only got caught on AV-roll doubles. Then again, there weren't any Bribes, and the Apothecary was better (d6: reserves on 2+, original result on 1).

sebco wrote:
I've just noticed that, in BB 2020, if you rolled a 6 arguing the call, your player wasn't sent off and stayed on the pitch.

Another small help for fouling
That's not small. Especially not if you can get 5+ Argue rolls. (Is that right?)

EDIT: If I understand right, and y'all are saying that you don't go to reserves on ATC, and you can get a 5+ ATC, then a DP/SG Human Catcher is a 105k 14SPP player, and if you're fouling at net AV4, you've got 22/216 (just over 10%) to get ejected and a 53/216 chance (just under 25%) to inflict a Casualty. Yummy. With 6+ ATC, it's 55/432 (13%-ish) to get ejected.

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Last edited by JackassRampant on Nov 21, 2020 - 01:05; edited 3 times in total
Jeffro



Joined: Jan 22, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 21, 2020 - 00:55 Reply with quote Back to top

I will just say that I *LOVE* that Piling On got turned into a follow up foul. I have pictures of NFL safeties back in the day - launching their own bodies like a missle and breaking their own noses to spear a receiver... the humanity part of it was brutal, but the imaginative portion of it is *SO* Blood Bowl B)
Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2020 - 23:39 Reply with quote Back to top

This thread needs fuel to reach Piling On heights.

And since Christer FOOLISHLY opened a new Current Thinking thread rather than allowing the festering corpse of the first one reach triple digits... eliminating a clear competitor...

I've done some calculations, and it turns out that...

The average number of fouls a Sneaky Git protected by a single Bribe will do before being sent off is 9.5

The probability of not being sent off (when the above conditions are satisfied) until the 16th foul is 22%

Assuming they also have Dirty Player and they set up assists so that armour is broken automatically*, the average number of removals per game is 5.5, not taking into account possible less optimised fouls after the dedicated fouler is sent off
(*this is an edge case and very unlikely to happen at every single foul)


Is fouling broken yet? Laughing


EDIT

I've not even factored in AtC Shocked
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 00:31 Reply with quote Back to top

I think that it might drive more incentive to play actively and less passive play. Someone who play passively during an offensive drive and who face someone who can foul repeatedly might loose the game or get more players seriously injured than what is good for them.

At least in a regular league format I think it can be a good way to break overly passive play in general, from both coaches in a game.

More active play usually leave little time for good fouling opportunities. So in order to avoid being fouled you need to move around and do something, or at least make the fouls less dangerous.

As it also is available to most teams everyone can make this strategy work to some degree. Teams with access to cheap bribes can possibly also make good use of the Pile Driver skill too.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 00:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Java wrote:

EDIT
I've not even factored in AtC Shocked

Well that was foolish. Now we will have to sent all your results back to the government department that issued them and ignore any possible conclusion until the study is taken again.

In the mean time I know what skill my goblin Ooligan is taking as his first...
Doofr



Joined: Nov 04, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2020 - 01:59 Reply with quote Back to top

CAB wrote:
I think that it might drive more incentive to play actively and less passive play. Someone who play passively during an offensive drive and who face someone who can foul repeatedly might loose the game or get more players seriously injured than what is good for them.

At least in a regular league format I think it can be a good way to break overly passive play in general, from both coaches in a game.

More active play usually leave little time for good fouling opportunities. So in order to avoid being fouled you need to move around and do something, or at least make the fouls less dangerous.

As it also is available to most teams everyone can make this strategy work to some degree. Teams with access to cheap bribes can possibly also make good use of the Pile Driver skill too.


Because offense dont foul ?

The incintive here in offense, is to bash the los then gangfoul someone, you should have after that often the men advantage and you should be able to continue to slowly attack in pack ,to continue fouling the defense and stall often easily .

Some people already played like that before, now it will become lot more popular i guess. Wink

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