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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 22:36 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion26 wrote:

Matt you are still more likely as the elf coach to be in a situation where you need two 2+ rolls to score and burn a reroll on the first one (and now can finish the scoring sequence with 2020 when you would fail before) then you are to be the victim of pick up ball 3+, hand off ball 3+, really stupid 2+, Eat the goblin 2+, TTM 3+, favorable scatters, landing 3+.
Extra rerolls makes the TTM sequence more likely but several of the rolls are a on a loner, and it's still not as likely as most scoring sequences.

Not true, because with old rules most of times I just needed a single 2+ to score with Leap then a dodge with Dodge, so multiple rr didn't make a difference for me. Now that Leap has been nerfed, for Elves the life is harder. Yes, they can use multiple rrs, but they have to make more rolls as well to bypass the defence.
I know because I played with old Leap and now I don't even take it anymore because it has been nerfed.

Garion26 wrote:

Heck your one turning as an elf coach also gets a boost in the reverse situation. It's still more likely then TTM would be barring agility stat ups , strong arm etc.

No, because to have decent one turning capability I have to build a player to do it. With old rules I could nominate him every game, now the MVP is random, so this takes more time. On top of this, Season Re-Draft will happen, forcing me to fire a good player after 2 Seasons, I guess, assuming he doesn't get crippled before.
Orcs can try the TTM from game 1 with more chances than Elves, because they have not developed a good 1 turner yet.
Also, Elves are all about scoring, so they are supposed to score in one turn.
Orcs are supposed to bash. They bash AND can 1TTD too AND they have a super cheap Bomber. Consider all these things, not just a single element in isolation.
I talked about Orcs, but the multiple rr + TTM can be extended to other teams able to do it, such as Black Orcs.


Last edited by MattDakka on Jun 24, 2022 - 12:32; edited 3 times in total
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 22:39 Reply with quote Back to top

If you put the ball 4 squares in, and between the wide zone markers, only Changing Weather can force a touchback. Even that has to scatter two squares in the wrong direction if you roll a 6 for the initial scatter, or one and a bounce, or two and a bounce and a 4 or 5, or less likely three squares in the same direction and a 4 or 5, or three squares and a bounce in the same direction and not a 1. Given that only 3 in 8 (or up to 5 in 8 if you put it along the WZ markers) directions are wrong and every scatter after the Kick deviation is independent, it's just one of those things that you have to laugh off.

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Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice, but instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 22:44 Reply with quote Back to top

I put the ball 4 squares, with Changing Weather happened the touchback. And, if I want to be safe and place the ball 5 squares away, then the ball is either too close to the Goblin who is going to be thrown or a player who can pick it up (an Orc Thrower could have the On The Ball skill). Also, there is High Kick too. Kick skill should be buffed to counter High Kick, for example by giving a -1 modifier to catch.
And no, wasting 8 turns of stalling for a Kick-Off event giving a touchback is not a thing I'm going to laugh off, especially if I took Kick to counter the TTM.
The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 23:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Could we have a MattDakka thread, where he could list all of his arguments and opinions, and the traumatic losses he has taken because of BB2020? In that way, he could simply respond to each new post in a thread with:

"I have already disagreed with that statement. See Paragraph 4, Section 2-B, to see why I'm likely correct, and you are likely mistaken. Link included. Also, please, make Black-Box. Good-day."

I think that would be *win* all around. Less typing and reading for all!

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Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 23, 2022 - 23:18 Reply with quote Back to top

I think you'll find that "thread" by selecting any of the 3 options next to the sign "recent forum topics"
almic85



Joined: May 25, 2009

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2022 - 01:40 Reply with quote Back to top

I don’t hate the new edition. I just think it’s a bit worse (less fun for me) than the old edition.

Playing mostly in L in the SWL which has implemented modified seasons which run for 7 games I find the rebuy mechanics to be limiting to “fun” team growth, and the need to be TV competitive at every redraft means that I am not likely to keep any player that has rolled a non-optimal random skill progression (if they don’t roll block, wrestle or dodge on their first skill they are unlikely to be rehired).

I also find that the low cost of star players combined with the large amount of cash made each game and also the ability to build certain teams to extremely low TV means that in a league environment it can become quite common to face decent teams with two good star players (Morg and Griff can often easily show up on a Norse team for example) with an averagely developed league team.

The current passing rules aren’t great but as nearly no one passes the ball anyway it has less of an impact as facing off against Morg for 16 turns.

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Xelron



Joined: Feb 21, 2017

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2022 - 04:52 Reply with quote Back to top

There is a lot that I like with the new rules but also plenty that I don't. I'd be fine with new rules and its flaws if it didn't have a large game breaking one being the stars and riotous rookies. That has taken most of the fun out of it for me. If I don't run into that, then I'm fine. Liked how redrafts work, like how passing is a separate giving unique options to the game, and most importantly the skill trees allowing doubles access easier and to have fun with skills that most coaches wouldn't take to begin with or even consider until its like the players 4th or 5th. So lots of good fun that gets stomped out due to meta breaking flaws
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2022 - 15:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Xelron wrote:
There is a lot that I like with the new rules but also plenty that I don't. I'd be fine with new rules and its flaws if it didn't have a large game breaking one being the stars and riotous rookies. That has taken most of the fun out of it for me. If I don't run into that, then I'm fine. Liked how redrafts work, like how passing is a separate giving unique options to the game, and most importantly the skill trees allowing doubles access easier and to have fun with skills that most coaches wouldn't take to begin with or even consider until its like the players 4th or 5th. So lots of good fun that gets stomped out due to meta breaking flaws


Riotous Rookies are ok... do you mean swarming? Thats the new thing for 2020
Garion26



Joined: Nov 28, 2021

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2022 - 19:33 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm a little surprised riotous rookies is a negative was present in BB16.
I think it's very good value on an ogre team as an inducement.

My comment on stars is I don't think anyone thinks the majority of the stars Zolcath, Akhorne, Willow, Zug are too prevalent. It's a handful of starts roughly 3, maybe 4 (if you want to include Bomma I don't) that are highly effective. Two of which got cost increases already and may again the future.

Stars were overcosted in LRB/BB16 and thus were almost always the last inducement selected after the wizard, and the bribe, and maybe a keg. Only the biggest of mismatches were places you saw stars. If they are now selected about as often as other inducements then they are costed appropriately.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2022 - 19:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Bomber is underpriced. It's crystal clear.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2022 - 20:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Agreed, but I'm not sure what the price should be. Accuracy on that player is awesome because it means you can't throw wild on a short pass, and you just don't do anything longer. Kaboom is like the ultimate anti-elf weapon, too. For goblins, this is all just good giggly fun, but for Orcs, it's better than a Wizard.

Oh, and at 50k, you can scum him as a 5k+ underdog without giving up a Prayer. Maybe just fix that, bring him up to 80k or something. Cuz as-is, it's too easy.

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Focus not on things you can't control, like bad dice, but instead on things under your power, like how far you flip the table.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2022 - 20:38 Reply with quote Back to top

I would price him somewhere in the 80,000 - 100,000 range (or just let me buy him too so my opponent can't use him). An ordinary Goblin Bomma costs 45,000. Compare him to Bomber, and see the incredible difference in terms of cost/effect and skills.
Also, a thing which annoys me a lot is that I'm forced to catch the bomb, then Kaboom! happens (so far it has been decisive 2 times on 2). The rules should allow not to catch the bomb and try to send it back/throw it away, instead (without holding it, in other words). "Oh, look, a flying bomb, I catch it!" it makes no sense. You try either to dodge or throw back a bomb, you don't catch it.
If only Goblins/Snotlings/Ogres could hire him, maybe it could be quite ok, but even top tier 1 teams not needing boosts can do it.
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