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2010-06-28 16:37:15
46 votes, rating 4.5
46 votes, rating 4.5
How to let the [B]ox help you become a better coach.
Once a week i am stuck in the office at work so i get bored and write a blog. This is this weeks one. Let's start by saying that this isn't a box vs ranked debate, and let's keep it that way.
I was thinking about BWR and the fact that it is hidden. I know a lot of Box coaches would prefer for it to, not only be visible but, be the preferred rating on their profile pages. However after giving it much thought I have come to the conclusion that BWR being hidden can actually help encourage more people into the Box, let me explain...
Most Ranked coaches would like to become even better at the game, and therefore have a higher CR. The problem with this is the urge to cherry pick easier games to allow you the greatest chance of winning to achieve that higher CR. This also has the side effect of competitive Ranked coaches not wishing to try out new tactics and/or races, because of the CR hit if it all turns out wrong.
Now let's say that these Ranked coaches decide to try out their new ideas/races in the Box instead. Not only will it be in a highly competitve and rough enviroment, it will also not impact their CR one tiny bit. Bonus is that no-one will even know how badly it all went as no-one can see their BWR unless they are in the top 10 (and then we would probably like everyone to know). It also goes without saying that the more games you play, and the wider variety of games you play the better a coach you will become.
Yes i know i am biased as i only play the Box, but i say to you Ranked coaches, don't abandon the box because you think that it is one dimensional or too rough. Embrace it and use it as a training ground for Ranked. Want to build up an elf team that actually has a chance in a Major? Start one in the Box and learn how to deal with pain. Want to see what happens when you give an entire norse team frenzy? Come to the Box and try it without the worry of losing ranking. As a bonus you will get more experience of playing up and (hopefully) down, again preparing you for those Ranked Majors.
Remember that if you don't your opponents will, and you will be at a disadvantage when you meet them on the pitch at a later date.
I was thinking about BWR and the fact that it is hidden. I know a lot of Box coaches would prefer for it to, not only be visible but, be the preferred rating on their profile pages. However after giving it much thought I have come to the conclusion that BWR being hidden can actually help encourage more people into the Box, let me explain...
Most Ranked coaches would like to become even better at the game, and therefore have a higher CR. The problem with this is the urge to cherry pick easier games to allow you the greatest chance of winning to achieve that higher CR. This also has the side effect of competitive Ranked coaches not wishing to try out new tactics and/or races, because of the CR hit if it all turns out wrong.
Now let's say that these Ranked coaches decide to try out their new ideas/races in the Box instead. Not only will it be in a highly competitve and rough enviroment, it will also not impact their CR one tiny bit. Bonus is that no-one will even know how badly it all went as no-one can see their BWR unless they are in the top 10 (and then we would probably like everyone to know). It also goes without saying that the more games you play, and the wider variety of games you play the better a coach you will become.
Yes i know i am biased as i only play the Box, but i say to you Ranked coaches, don't abandon the box because you think that it is one dimensional or too rough. Embrace it and use it as a training ground for Ranked. Want to build up an elf team that actually has a chance in a Major? Start one in the Box and learn how to deal with pain. Want to see what happens when you give an entire norse team frenzy? Come to the Box and try it without the worry of losing ranking. As a bonus you will get more experience of playing up and (hopefully) down, again preparing you for those Ranked Majors.
Remember that if you don't your opponents will, and you will be at a disadvantage when you meet them on the pitch at a later date.
Comments
Posted by CircularLogic on 2010-06-28 16:43:08
I can confirm, that my play has significantly improved since I main the box. Knowledge and a feel for when to commit your 9 elves to hold a full orcish side has been very useful in Ranked, too!
Posted by maysrill on 2010-06-28 16:53:08
I try to keep a nice mix between Ranked and Box. My general style is to play Ranked to build fun teams and to get a few tourney-ready (major or smack), then let them get beat back down in the tourney, and repeat the cycle. I play Box when I don't see anything promising in Ranked, and generally don't care what happens to my Box teams. Depending on the races you play, you can get some more interesting matches in the Box, since a lot of times you won't see them in Ranked.
Posted by Kryten on 2010-06-28 17:00:15
I ruined my BWR keeping my wood elf team alive in [B], but it was worth it. I learned a lot about playing shorthanded, and a bit more about recovering a broken team.
Posted by asharak on 2010-06-28 17:01:58
Since joining box I've found my play becoming lots worse. My elves played orcs etc anyway so no new learning there and I now try and maim people too much, sometimes at the cost of scoring, as that is what happens to me nearly every game. T16 fouls are almost inevitable in box.
Posted by Purplegoo on 2010-06-28 17:56:30
'...don't abandon the box because you think that it is one dimensional or too rough..'
One dimensional was one of the reasons I stopped playing after a short go, but too rough? To someone that's played plenty of [L]eague with Elves and other low AV races, it's not too rough, let me assure you.
I know you didn't mean it this way, but there _are_ numerous more reasons why someone might not get on with the [B]ox. And that's OK! I like that you like it, but because a coach doesn't, doesn't make him a wuss, or whatever (I know, not the words you used).
I wish we could get away from this what's better thing, and just get on having fun wherever we consider it to be.
One dimensional was one of the reasons I stopped playing after a short go, but too rough? To someone that's played plenty of [L]eague with Elves and other low AV races, it's not too rough, let me assure you.
I know you didn't mean it this way, but there _are_ numerous more reasons why someone might not get on with the [B]ox. And that's OK! I like that you like it, but because a coach doesn't, doesn't make him a wuss, or whatever (I know, not the words you used).
I wish we could get away from this what's better thing, and just get on having fun wherever we consider it to be.
Posted by Purplegoo on 2010-06-28 18:00:13
(Note, my point was, one can, for instance, get good at managing Elves in all situations in [R] or other divisions too. It doesn't need to be forced upon you to improve your game!)
Posted by maysrill on 2010-06-28 18:16:46
One thing the Box really helped me with as far as Ranked was looking at more options for an "even" game. A basher/basher or elf/elf game with identical TR/TS is obvious, but the Box got me thinking out of the box more. A 210/165 versus 170/150 match looks like a total non-starter at first glance, but barring other factors (race matchup, shorthandedness, etc.) it's not that bad a match.
Without handicaps, I'd generally consider anything less than 5 TS difference (under TR200) or less than 10 TS (over 200, with some flexibility in the middle), to be dead-even. The addition of handicaps and wider ranges of TS make the potential to get Ranked games easier is a big help. Blackbox is good for getting you over the "zomg, noes! Can't have handicaps!" you often see in Ranked.
Without handicaps, I'd generally consider anything less than 5 TS difference (under TR200) or less than 10 TS (over 200, with some flexibility in the middle), to be dead-even. The addition of handicaps and wider ranges of TS make the potential to get Ranked games easier is a big help. Blackbox is good for getting you over the "zomg, noes! Can't have handicaps!" you often see in Ranked.
Posted by Resarf on 2010-06-28 18:18:11
An excellent blog.
Even beyond trying out new strategies (I don't shy from mixing it up anyway) the box has done my game oodles of good (beginning a while back when I was forced to try out the skill DP, ha, talk about learning curve).
training your Bloodbowl mind in the box = adapt or die
adapt or die = best strategies rising to the top
best strategies rising to the top = better coaching
@Purplegoo, did you read the blog or just decide to type that diarrhoetic claptrap for the smell of it? You, and only you, are failing to "get away from this what's better thing".
Even beyond trying out new strategies (I don't shy from mixing it up anyway) the box has done my game oodles of good (beginning a while back when I was forced to try out the skill DP, ha, talk about learning curve).
training your Bloodbowl mind in the box = adapt or die
adapt or die = best strategies rising to the top
best strategies rising to the top = better coaching
@Purplegoo, did you read the blog or just decide to type that diarrhoetic claptrap for the smell of it? You, and only you, are failing to "get away from this what's better thing".
Posted by CircularLogic on 2010-06-28 19:20:31
funny thing.. I have been breaking away from DP in the box.. that was the new thing I worked with - at least with my elves. Woodies have no DP for 10 matches now and went 7/2/1. I rarely miss a DP and the extra +4 TS he brings.
Posted by Resarf on 2010-06-28 19:23:37
makes sense with the uber expensiveness of the players, I'll have to try that when I rebuild mine.
Posted by freak_in_a_frock on 2010-06-28 19:28:32
@ asharak I agree T16 fouling is rife in the Box, as it is in Majors, which is why i was encouraging coaches to come to the Box and experience it, know to expect it, and to know how to deal with it. If you just hide from it you will be caught out in a tournament.
@Purplegoo: I did say i didn't want this to turn into a Ranked vs Box debate. I never at any point insulted anybody who chooses to play in a different division. I never even said that the Box isn't one dimensional. All i did was express some good points on way playing in the Box is a good thing. I am not quite sure why you got so defensive about my blog. I agree that Elves can get good in all divisions, the point i was raising is that you can use the Box to get good at them without negatively affecting your CR. In fact your comment seems to be the only one that even raises Div vs Div rivalry, my blog was trying to encourage co-existence.
To summarize:- I am not saying that the Box is better than any other division, all i am saying is that it can be used however you like it, just in the same way that the other divisions can.
@Purplegoo: I did say i didn't want this to turn into a Ranked vs Box debate. I never at any point insulted anybody who chooses to play in a different division. I never even said that the Box isn't one dimensional. All i did was express some good points on way playing in the Box is a good thing. I am not quite sure why you got so defensive about my blog. I agree that Elves can get good in all divisions, the point i was raising is that you can use the Box to get good at them without negatively affecting your CR. In fact your comment seems to be the only one that even raises Div vs Div rivalry, my blog was trying to encourage co-existence.
To summarize:- I am not saying that the Box is better than any other division, all i am saying is that it can be used however you like it, just in the same way that the other divisions can.
Posted by Rijssiej on 2010-06-28 19:40:04
To summarize:- I am not saying that the Box is better than any other division, all i am saying is that it can be used however you like it, just in the same way that the other divisions can.
And that is why your blog says nothing...
And that is why your blog says nothing...
Posted by freak_in_a_frock on 2010-06-28 20:17:13
Hmm i must have missed the memo that went out saying that from now on Blogs need to be detailed, precise and meaningful. I still thought they were meant to be random musings and insights to the writer's views. Maybe that is why i put this as a blog and not a forum post, well at least i will know for next time. Sorry for making you read this... Move along... there is nothing to see here....honestly.....
Posted by SillySod on 2010-06-28 20:39:29
Yay for [B]
Posted by Purplegoo on 2010-06-28 22:05:13
Blimey Resarf, gogo interweb King! :D
And Freak / Rizzle both have a point there I guess, through the bluntness and the slight touchiness!
Fun times. :)
And Freak / Rizzle both have a point there I guess, through the bluntness and the slight touchiness!
Fun times. :)
Posted by Resarf on 2010-06-28 23:15:55
I have been waiting forever to hear that. Crowning yourself isn't allowed you know :)
Posted by Dynamix on 2010-06-28 23:34:38
I like hidden BWR ( mine is low by the way ) and therefore I find the Box more relaxing knowing that visible CR isnt suffering from a wish just to have a bit of fun .
Posted by Resarf on 2010-06-28 23:48:12
that's true for me as well: I stick to box when I am drunk.
Posted by Ancre on 2010-06-29 00:44:46
I used to have trouble making av7 teams survive on Fumbbl ; in the box I have trouble making av7 players survive ! Guess I'm still a newb ;)
I'd like to have visible BWR but that's because graphs and statistics are cool. I can see your point though. But it's just a graph ! It looks nicer with ups and downs :D
I'd like to have visible BWR but that's because graphs and statistics are cool. I can see your point though. But it's just a graph ! It looks nicer with ups and downs :D
Posted by Timlagor on 2010-06-29 01:07:59
Ancre: maybe it's because making av7 players survive is hard :)
..or just not the point of av7 players. THey aren't meant to survive: they are meant to KILL!! :D
OK that may only be skaven...
Do people really get to worked up about CR?
..or just not the point of av7 players. THey aren't meant to survive: they are meant to KILL!! :D
OK that may only be skaven...
Do people really get to worked up about CR?
Posted by pythrr on 2010-06-29 07:06:36
Some people do Tim...
Posted by maysrill on 2010-06-29 13:19:58
I'm not sold on hidden BWR. There are people who play so little Ranked that their CR is irrelevant, and I like knowing whether I'm playing a noob or a veteran.
It's one thing being able to tell yourself "well, I lost to PurpleChest, but everyone knows he's good, no shame in that", versus "I just lost 2-0 to a CR135 coach who had worse luck than me...I suck" (when that coach played for a month in Ranked, then switched to Box full time for the past year and has a BWR of 165).
As for CR, I go on alternating kicks of "hey, I can get my CR up and everyone will think I'm smart" and "dammit, I wish my CR was like 140 so people would play me". I guess I'm in the former mood right now ;)
It's one thing being able to tell yourself "well, I lost to PurpleChest, but everyone knows he's good, no shame in that", versus "I just lost 2-0 to a CR135 coach who had worse luck than me...I suck" (when that coach played for a month in Ranked, then switched to Box full time for the past year and has a BWR of 165).
As for CR, I go on alternating kicks of "hey, I can get my CR up and everyone will think I'm smart" and "dammit, I wish my CR was like 140 so people would play me". I guess I'm in the former mood right now ;)
Posted by Dynamix on 2010-06-29 20:30:10
And theres an argument for making CR and BWR private hidden , no one gets hung up about it , no CR snobs , who cares about that crap if a game is enjoyable .