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2016-05-19 01:26:12
14 votes, rating 4.3
14 votes, rating 4.3
NFL labor
Somewhat inspired by the Draft League Europe and through the Draft League Europe I got to familiarize myself with the concept of how the National Football League works.
Something that appeared to me continually suspect and insane to make sense of it until it finally dawned on me that the concept of the league is just simply a well thought out completely 100% socialist concept. When people start explaining the NFL they should probably start with saying it's socialst, because well... you don't expect an American sport to be like that but oh well.
So well anyways, everybody loves socialism. Unless you are a soulless monster of course. If it would only work.
Well, clearly some people spent a lot of time figuring out a way to make the NFL work. So I just started to wonder what the practical problems would be to transfer the concept of the NFL to the labor market of an entire country.
I imagine something like every industry representing a body where they can sort of pick from a draft pool based off of college students. The more successful a company is, the worse its draft picks get.
And you just do that with every industry. Just brainstorming a bit potential problems and solutions here.
Really never crossed my mind before but I find the possibility quite intriguing. So I'm turning to the only potential NFL experts I know, which is you guys. :)
Something that appeared to me continually suspect and insane to make sense of it until it finally dawned on me that the concept of the league is just simply a well thought out completely 100% socialist concept. When people start explaining the NFL they should probably start with saying it's socialst, because well... you don't expect an American sport to be like that but oh well.
So well anyways, everybody loves socialism. Unless you are a soulless monster of course. If it would only work.
Well, clearly some people spent a lot of time figuring out a way to make the NFL work. So I just started to wonder what the practical problems would be to transfer the concept of the NFL to the labor market of an entire country.
I imagine something like every industry representing a body where they can sort of pick from a draft pool based off of college students. The more successful a company is, the worse its draft picks get.
And you just do that with every industry. Just brainstorming a bit potential problems and solutions here.
Really never crossed my mind before but I find the possibility quite intriguing. So I'm turning to the only potential NFL experts I know, which is you guys. :)
Comments
Posted by ph0enyx13 on 2016-05-19 02:32:31
Because then you would be forced to work a job you hate. Even NFL players hold out and demand to be traded because they don't like who drafted them. See John Elway, Bo Jackson, and Eli Manning.
Posted by licker on 2016-05-19 02:38:49
Well how do the industries control the labor pool they are drawing from?
How does the labor pool negotiate their contracts with the industries?
How does the labor pool negotiate their contracts with the industries?
Posted by pythrr on 2016-05-19 02:39:48
5 year plan! 5 year plan!
Posted by Wreckage on 2016-05-19 03:42:27
[Licker wrote: "Well how do the industries control the labor pool they are drawing from?
How does the labor pool negotiate their contracts with the industries?"]
Well, I'm not an expert on how the NFL does it but I imagine there is a roof organisation, so likewise there would have to be a roof organisation for an industry. While the workers of an industry usually organize in unions.
The union negotiates terms with the roof organisation.
Then technically the supplier of the labor force are the colleges.
So, the colleges might be a negotiation partner for draft terms?
The industries roof organisations would obviously need to match particular subjects taught at college and vice versa.
So one roof organisation would primarily draw the students that are taught a particular subject.
Scouts could go into the colleges, check out the students, check their test results, see how they perform, how their work ethic is and whether they think, they are a good fit for their company.
The students can of course decide themselves if they really want to enter the draft.
How does the labor pool negotiate their contracts with the industries?"]
Well, I'm not an expert on how the NFL does it but I imagine there is a roof organisation, so likewise there would have to be a roof organisation for an industry. While the workers of an industry usually organize in unions.
The union negotiates terms with the roof organisation.
Then technically the supplier of the labor force are the colleges.
So, the colleges might be a negotiation partner for draft terms?
The industries roof organisations would obviously need to match particular subjects taught at college and vice versa.
So one roof organisation would primarily draw the students that are taught a particular subject.
Scouts could go into the colleges, check out the students, check their test results, see how they perform, how their work ethic is and whether they think, they are a good fit for their company.
The students can of course decide themselves if they really want to enter the draft.
Posted by Cavetroll on 2016-05-19 03:51:17
It's an interesting thought, and I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but can you explain why you think the NFL represents socialism? I would agree that the NFL (and all the major sports leagues in the USA) are different from other business models because they all get anti-trust exemption. This means they do not have to compete against another organization that plays the same sport (although you can point to the USFL and the XFL in the past as failed attempts at competition for the NFL).
Posted by Wreckage on 2016-05-19 05:31:34
Cavetroll, basically when I'm confronted with a new idea I just like to think it through. I don't know how I feel about it either. It's fascinating, hence makes sense to discuss it.
Why the NFL represents socialism. It's nothing unusual that a sport has a roof organisation that goes without or just irrelevant competition.
What's unusual is the enclosed economical environment. The sharing of profits between clubs and their fair distribution. The draft system that disconnects the players completely from the market. The safeguards in place that make it impossible to sell a player later that you drafted. Which in any other sport is basically the core ware you use to conduct business. When looked at these things individually it may appear just like some random design kinks but when you look at it as a whole you realize that the whole system in place is designed to create an artifical sphere of total balance between clubs to prevent them from massively drifting apart. Instead of competing, you share, your financial benefit is marginal. You try to maintain a balance that is fair for everyone. That's socialism through and through.
In any other sport when you want to be successful you need money. And when you are successful you get money. So you try to be successful to get money. And to get money you have to be successful. The more successful you are the more your drift financially apart from the unsuccessful. The more you drift apart the stronger squad can you afford the more money you gain the bigger the gap the more successful. That's capitalism in it's purest form. Like.. in Europe when you want to see what capitalism is like all open on display like in a zoo.. you watch sports.
About 5 clubs that have a shot at the Champions League each year in a sport where the outcomes are about as random and low score as in BB. But hey when you got the money, right? ;)
Why the NFL represents socialism. It's nothing unusual that a sport has a roof organisation that goes without or just irrelevant competition.
What's unusual is the enclosed economical environment. The sharing of profits between clubs and their fair distribution. The draft system that disconnects the players completely from the market. The safeguards in place that make it impossible to sell a player later that you drafted. Which in any other sport is basically the core ware you use to conduct business. When looked at these things individually it may appear just like some random design kinks but when you look at it as a whole you realize that the whole system in place is designed to create an artifical sphere of total balance between clubs to prevent them from massively drifting apart. Instead of competing, you share, your financial benefit is marginal. You try to maintain a balance that is fair for everyone. That's socialism through and through.
In any other sport when you want to be successful you need money. And when you are successful you get money. So you try to be successful to get money. And to get money you have to be successful. The more successful you are the more your drift financially apart from the unsuccessful. The more you drift apart the stronger squad can you afford the more money you gain the bigger the gap the more successful. That's capitalism in it's purest form. Like.. in Europe when you want to see what capitalism is like all open on display like in a zoo.. you watch sports.
About 5 clubs that have a shot at the Champions League each year in a sport where the outcomes are about as random and low score as in BB. But hey when you got the money, right? ;)
Posted by licker on 2016-05-19 06:57:04
Well NFL teams can 'sell' players, though it's not for cash (always) as it is in soccer, they trade them, and eventually the players become free agents where they are the masters of their own destiny and can sign a contract with any team they can reach an agreeable deal with.
The draft process is fairly socialistic though I suppose, if you want to look at it that way. And yes, there is a players union which negotiates on behalf of it's members with the owners of the 32 teams to reach whatever agreements they reach.
I have a hard time seeing how this would apply to other industries though (it's common enough in american sports though, but there the league has a vested interest in maintaining competitive balance, and the owners are made to accept restrictions, other than baseball, because they get more money out of the system).
Pick a sector, say banking. The banking companies would have a 'draft' of new graduates with 'banking' degrees? This is difficult to imagine when you start thinking of the multinational aspects of these companies. But it's already true to a degree in the way that companies recruit top students. True, not a draft per se, and no real limits anywhere, but the process seems to me to already be similar.
The draft process is fairly socialistic though I suppose, if you want to look at it that way. And yes, there is a players union which negotiates on behalf of it's members with the owners of the 32 teams to reach whatever agreements they reach.
I have a hard time seeing how this would apply to other industries though (it's common enough in american sports though, but there the league has a vested interest in maintaining competitive balance, and the owners are made to accept restrictions, other than baseball, because they get more money out of the system).
Pick a sector, say banking. The banking companies would have a 'draft' of new graduates with 'banking' degrees? This is difficult to imagine when you start thinking of the multinational aspects of these companies. But it's already true to a degree in the way that companies recruit top students. True, not a draft per se, and no real limits anywhere, but the process seems to me to already be similar.
Posted by bghandras on 2016-05-19 10:12:40
Well, it makes sense to label NFL draft system as socialist. Probably it is. They call it competitive balance, which makes harder for the good teams to improve.
Applying to the other labour markets are difficult. I think the costs of doing so and policing it would be significant. So i would say that big money industries like consulting, banking, high tech may afford it, but small companies, like the local shop, barber, grocery stores would probably not be able to handle the extra overhead costs.
Applying to the other labour markets are difficult. I think the costs of doing so and policing it would be significant. So i would say that big money industries like consulting, banking, high tech may afford it, but small companies, like the local shop, barber, grocery stores would probably not be able to handle the extra overhead costs.
Posted by PurpleChest on 2016-05-19 10:12:41
It was my first thought oo wreckage, when I came to understand american sports.
'Wow, we have built a capitalist meritocracy and they (the USA), a socialist utopia.'
But it makes more sense if you view the NFL as a capitalist monopoly. the actual teams pretend at competing like brands within a corporation (think Unilever), while actually maintaining market dominance for the Parent company (over baseball, hockey etc).
Then the fact that the phony competition between the brands is kept level by socialist seeming mechanisms makes far more sense. Like the moving of profits into different shell companies, or advertising the same product in different boxes at different types of consumer.
The owners act as a cartel, ensuring maximum long term profits for all by sharing the 'wins' so that every internal brand (team) remains viable.
'Wow, we have built a capitalist meritocracy and they (the USA), a socialist utopia.'
But it makes more sense if you view the NFL as a capitalist monopoly. the actual teams pretend at competing like brands within a corporation (think Unilever), while actually maintaining market dominance for the Parent company (over baseball, hockey etc).
Then the fact that the phony competition between the brands is kept level by socialist seeming mechanisms makes far more sense. Like the moving of profits into different shell companies, or advertising the same product in different boxes at different types of consumer.
The owners act as a cartel, ensuring maximum long term profits for all by sharing the 'wins' so that every internal brand (team) remains viable.
Posted by pythrr on 2016-05-19 15:52:56
except Cleveland, that is.
Posted by DeZigma on 2016-05-19 16:01:07
Well, no socialism w/o curruption!
Posted by PainState on 2016-05-19 16:48:50
"What's unusual is the enclosed economical environment. The sharing of profits between clubs and their fair distribution. "
Well, NFL teams share profits from some revenue streams BUT there are other revenue streams that are not shared. The "league" is actually very un balanced in terms of economics when it comes to profits that the clubs bring in. On one hand you have the Dallas Cowboys who are #2 in the entire USA for total value of professional teams, only behind the New York Yankees in baseball. Then you have teams like Cleveland, Jacksonville and Oakland who are paupers sitting on the corner just hoping some one drops a copper penny in their donation bin.
"The safeguards in place that make it impossible to sell a player later that you drafted. Which in any other sport is basically the core ware you use to conduct business."
Well the NFL has rules in place that lock in players to a set contract IF they are drafted in the first round of the draft. The rules are to ensure that every team gets to keep that player for 4-5 years before he can enter the open market. It creates stability on every team by teams able to protect their best talent for some time.
Players drafted in the 2nd to 7th round, well, that is another matter. Most of those players only sign 2-3 contracts with clauses that allow them to leave after 2 years and go full free agent.
The reality of the situation is that the NFL is a very brutal game, its players get beat down hard. The average life span of a NFL player is only 2-3 years before he is out of the league because of injuries or lack of talent.
If you go to sites like NFL.com they have the transaction logs for all the teams. It is not out of the ordinary that a team will hire and fire over 70+ players in a season. All those players are now free in the market to sign on with any other team.
This is very common in the NFL. Player Joe is placed on Injured Reserve on Monday, then released from the team on Tuesday, Wed. the team hires Player frank to replace out the niggled Joe.
Every one forgets who Joe is, a few years later you ask, what happend to Joe? Oh, he is now a insurance agent in spokane Washington. His 1 Year carrer was cut short.
That example above is the norm and not the exception.
As fans we focus on the star players of the league, they are around for a long time, it seems. We forget about the other 40+ guys on the roster who are getting traded, released, leave and get injured. Those other 40+ guys are constantly in flux, moving to other teams and the roster just keeps getting churned over and over.
SO
The NFL is not socialist in nature. It is a very brutal sport on its players and they drop like flies left and right and it is a meat grinder of titanic proportions. It is more like a gladiator arena of next man up when one drops.
Well, NFL teams share profits from some revenue streams BUT there are other revenue streams that are not shared. The "league" is actually very un balanced in terms of economics when it comes to profits that the clubs bring in. On one hand you have the Dallas Cowboys who are #2 in the entire USA for total value of professional teams, only behind the New York Yankees in baseball. Then you have teams like Cleveland, Jacksonville and Oakland who are paupers sitting on the corner just hoping some one drops a copper penny in their donation bin.
"The safeguards in place that make it impossible to sell a player later that you drafted. Which in any other sport is basically the core ware you use to conduct business."
Well the NFL has rules in place that lock in players to a set contract IF they are drafted in the first round of the draft. The rules are to ensure that every team gets to keep that player for 4-5 years before he can enter the open market. It creates stability on every team by teams able to protect their best talent for some time.
Players drafted in the 2nd to 7th round, well, that is another matter. Most of those players only sign 2-3 contracts with clauses that allow them to leave after 2 years and go full free agent.
The reality of the situation is that the NFL is a very brutal game, its players get beat down hard. The average life span of a NFL player is only 2-3 years before he is out of the league because of injuries or lack of talent.
If you go to sites like NFL.com they have the transaction logs for all the teams. It is not out of the ordinary that a team will hire and fire over 70+ players in a season. All those players are now free in the market to sign on with any other team.
This is very common in the NFL. Player Joe is placed on Injured Reserve on Monday, then released from the team on Tuesday, Wed. the team hires Player frank to replace out the niggled Joe.
Every one forgets who Joe is, a few years later you ask, what happend to Joe? Oh, he is now a insurance agent in spokane Washington. His 1 Year carrer was cut short.
That example above is the norm and not the exception.
As fans we focus on the star players of the league, they are around for a long time, it seems. We forget about the other 40+ guys on the roster who are getting traded, released, leave and get injured. Those other 40+ guys are constantly in flux, moving to other teams and the roster just keeps getting churned over and over.
SO
The NFL is not socialist in nature. It is a very brutal sport on its players and they drop like flies left and right and it is a meat grinder of titanic proportions. It is more like a gladiator arena of next man up when one drops.
Posted by mrt1212 on 2016-05-19 17:49:26
Oligarch Cartel perhaps?
Posted by DeZigma on 2016-05-19 18:13:27
"Oligarch Cartel perhaps?"
well, this happen usually after a breakdown of socialistic system!
well, this happen usually after a breakdown of socialistic system!
Posted by bghandras on 2016-05-19 23:49:33
I read that all DRAFTED rookies sign a 4 year contract, money is depending on the draft round and draft slot. Team has a 5th year option for 1st rounders, which is at about market value.
Of course 7th round picks get the minimum, thus can be cut without financial constraints, but 1st rounders usually have a fully guaranteed contract, so if a 1st rounder is cut, then it is usually not for financial, but attitude reasons.
Of course 7th round picks get the minimum, thus can be cut without financial constraints, but 1st rounders usually have a fully guaranteed contract, so if a 1st rounder is cut, then it is usually not for financial, but attitude reasons.
Posted by Beerox on 2016-05-20 04:25:13
Yes, let us have some select humans put into control of hundreds of millions of humans. It will surely work well, what could go wrong?
Posted by DeZigma on 2016-05-20 08:49:38
"Yes, let us have some select humans put into control of hundreds of millions of humans."
In fact that's the way it goes. We elect/select humans or let other elect/select humans and put them in front of us. And yes the election/selction process is manipulated by media/power/industry/staate/or whatever ... the results are evident!
In fact that's the way it goes. We elect/select humans or let other elect/select humans and put them in front of us. And yes the election/selction process is manipulated by media/power/industry/staate/or whatever ... the results are evident!