44 coaches online • Server time: 17:56
* * * Did you know? The best blocker is Taku the Second with 551 casualties.
Recent Forum Topics  Roster Tiers | Gnomes are trash | Cindy is back? |
2010-06-15 17:29:49
59 votes, rating 5.7
59 votes, rating 5.7
FFB Development Update X
Version 0.5.2 is well on its way and I hope to release it in time for the upcoming weekend (keep your fingers crossed).
Only very few bugfixes but lots of new stuff in this edition:
* a new Game Startup sequence includes choosing Journeymen and showing right off how that effects your Team Value. Buying inducements comes right after that dialog. Christer still needs to add Journeymen to the post-game-phase though, so you don't get to keep them yet.
* the Throw-Team-Mate sequence has changed to picking up the thrown player first and placing the range ruler second.
* new skills implemented are: Strip Ball, Leader (thanks to Hangar18) and Chainsaw.
* Secret Weapons being banned may use Bribes now to try to remain in the game
What's up next: Starplayer inducements are next on my ToDo, as Christer has already added the player stats to the appropriate roster xmls. Then it's down to finishing the skill set (11 to go, I think) which brings some quite interesting tasks such as implementing Pass Block or Bloodlust.
Only very few bugfixes but lots of new stuff in this edition:
* a new Game Startup sequence includes choosing Journeymen and showing right off how that effects your Team Value. Buying inducements comes right after that dialog. Christer still needs to add Journeymen to the post-game-phase though, so you don't get to keep them yet.
* the Throw-Team-Mate sequence has changed to picking up the thrown player first and placing the range ruler second.
* new skills implemented are: Strip Ball, Leader (thanks to Hangar18) and Chainsaw.
* Secret Weapons being banned may use Bribes now to try to remain in the game
What's up next: Starplayer inducements are next on my ToDo, as Christer has already added the player stats to the appropriate roster xmls. Then it's down to finishing the skill set (11 to go, I think) which brings some quite interesting tasks such as implementing Pass Block or Bloodlust.
Comments
Posted by Calthor on 2010-06-15 17:39:14
Hurray! Great news, good job Kalimar. \o/
Posted by clarkin on 2010-06-15 17:45:11
Huzzah! Chainsaw will 'combo' well with star players next :)
Posted by blader4411 on 2010-06-15 17:46:46
W00t! Goblins are gonna be good :-P
-Blader
-Blader
Posted by princevaliant on 2010-06-15 18:04:51
You're a legend in your spare time Kalimar.
/salute
/salute
Posted by maysrill on 2010-06-15 18:05:46
Three cheers for Kalimar!
(now THAT is one we need a spectator emote for!)
(now THAT is one we need a spectator emote for!)
Posted by avien on 2010-06-15 18:16:55
Very nice. But should you be allowed to keep your journeymen?
Posted by maysrill on 2010-06-15 18:27:29
You have the option to buy them, after the game. If one comes up with some spp during the game, it's better than buying a fresh rookie.
Posted by avien on 2010-06-15 19:25:45
Aha, thanks for shedding light on the matter maysrill.
Posted by f_alk on 2010-06-15 20:03:05
Actually, you get your new journeymen in the Post-match-sequence after choosing to keep or fire older ones, and not in the Pre-match-sequence.
This will affect the TV, and TV will still be a factor for people to accept or decline a match.
So, people will feel cheated upon, if someone does not take all possible journeymen to get more inducement money to buy a meaner star.
I would propose to not do any journeyman business in the start-up sequence.
Posted by JellyBelly on 2010-06-15 20:08:34
That's awesome Kalimar. One comment though: isn't the choosing of journeymen for the next game supposed to take place at the *end* of the match (p.29 of the CRP rulebook). As they count towards TV, they would need to be chosen before the next game is arranged for the TVs to be accurate ...
Posted by JellyBelly on 2010-06-15 20:12:49
Ah, you beat me to it f_alk :)
Yes, both buying of players and hiring of journeymen are part of the 'post-game sequence', so technically shouldn't teams be 'frozen' so that you can't arrange or start another game until each coach has decided whether or not they're going to buy any new players/hire journeymen?
No more sneak hiring! :D
Yes, both buying of players and hiring of journeymen are part of the 'post-game sequence', so technically shouldn't teams be 'frozen' so that you can't arrange or start another game until each coach has decided whether or not they're going to buy any new players/hire journeymen?
No more sneak hiring! :D
Posted by nin on 2010-06-15 20:27:11
Great work... impresive work.
The change in TTM sounds promising, may fix some weird stuff.
Journeymen seem great too, but this pre-post-match secuence probably needs some parchment.
Strip Ball and Leader, look great.
Eager to see that Bloodlust, I'm in a Vampire streack nowadays (and promises good bughunt times)
The change in TTM sounds promising, may fix some weird stuff.
Journeymen seem great too, but this pre-post-match secuence probably needs some parchment.
Strip Ball and Leader, look great.
Eager to see that Bloodlust, I'm in a Vampire streack nowadays (and promises good bughunt times)
Posted by turboraton on 2010-06-15 22:23:45
<3 Kalimar!
Posted by Kalimar on 2010-06-15 22:45:59
Thanks for the comments, but I fail to see the difference between choosing journeymen pre- or post-game. The Team Value is modified appropriately and immediately. There is no sneaking. If you choose journeyman you have less TV difference to choose Inducements for. If you don't do it to have more TV differnce to buy a better inducement you quite simply have less players which is likely bad in itself. So Journeymen are some sort of inducement as well. The integrating of Journeymen into the client this way was according to a wish from Christer, actually.
Posted by JellyBelly on 2010-06-15 23:47:21
Well, I guess I'm a bit concerned that if the purchasing and journeymen stages are shifted to the pre-game sequence, then it might be more open to underhand tactics. Say I have a team with 8 players, 1,500k TV and 250k in the treasury, and I arrange a game vs a team with 12 players, 1,300k TV and 70k in the treasury. After we agree to the game, in the pre-game phase I have the option to spend some cash on new players or take on journeymen. Yes, either of these will also boost my TV, so I give away more inducements, but I can still see canny players getting some advantage, because (in my opinion) the inducements are quite expensive and not really worth their TV cost. A bribe and a bloodweiser babe doesn't really compensate for an extra ogre or deathroller, for example.
So, if I'm planning on buying two new big guys for my Chaos Pact team, I can wait until I've arranged the game, where my TV will have seemed artificially low. To me, it seems similar to the 'sneak-hiring' we have now - I think it might give teams with more cash (and coaches who stockpile cash) an unfair advantage.
However, if all purchasing and journeymen are done at the end of the previous game, before the team is cleared to go looking for other games, then the only way they can boost their TV is through petty cash, which is entirely fair, as it will be mirrored by your opponent's handicap money. That would seem to me to be more transparent and everyone would know where they stand when looking for games.
So, if I'm planning on buying two new big guys for my Chaos Pact team, I can wait until I've arranged the game, where my TV will have seemed artificially low. To me, it seems similar to the 'sneak-hiring' we have now - I think it might give teams with more cash (and coaches who stockpile cash) an unfair advantage.
However, if all purchasing and journeymen are done at the end of the previous game, before the team is cleared to go looking for other games, then the only way they can boost their TV is through petty cash, which is entirely fair, as it will be mirrored by your opponent's handicap money. That would seem to me to be more transparent and everyone would know where they stand when looking for games.
Posted by nin on 2010-06-16 01:41:02
Well, Christer probably knows better, but I was thinking about gamefinder pairings and BlackBox scheduler...
It's easier to see if 2 teams are a good match if you see TV and journeymen beforehand (and it looks particularly dodgy for the Box scheduler... a couple of Longbeard journeymen can change a lot at low TV/TS)
It's easier to see if 2 teams are a good match if you see TV and journeymen beforehand (and it looks particularly dodgy for the Box scheduler... a couple of Longbeard journeymen can change a lot at low TV/TS)
Posted by Kalimar on 2010-06-16 07:33:51
Just to make that clear: I am talking about the (cost free) filling up the team with Journeymen not the buying of players. Players are bought (and experienced Journeymen taken on permanently) on Fumbbl as before, taking from the treasury. As to the game matching I made a suggestion to Christer to show the Team-Value with and without Journeymen, So a human team with 3 possible Journeymen could show up as 1700k(1850k).
Posted by koadah on 2010-06-17 21:51:27
Journeymen are post match sequence so hire after the match.
If you join a match without them then you don't get them. Simple.
People will soon learn to hire their journeymen post match ;)
The client doesn't need to know about journeymen.
Allowing them pre game leaves you open to Cyanide type exploits.
Best to follow the rules unless there is a good reason not to.
If you join a match without them then you don't get them. Simple.
People will soon learn to hire their journeymen post match ;)
The client doesn't need to know about journeymen.
Allowing them pre game leaves you open to Cyanide type exploits.
Best to follow the rules unless there is a good reason not to.
Posted by XZCion on 2010-08-11 03:06:31
I haven't seen this issue addressed in the release notes yet, and since I'm not playing the FFB client atm I dont' know if this has been addressed yet.
If you want to see what having journeymen added in the pregame does, just jump on the Cyanide forums and look at all the people complaining about it there. If it's not the bugs or the modification of local game data, it's the crappy implementation of journeymen in the pre-game sequence.
Very very typical example is having a bunch of skilled up bashy players, 6 or so. TV 1000ish. I then get ranked against new TV 1000 teams. I get 5 extra lino's and proceed to rip the newb's apart wtih my skilled up players.
Similarly if I have a team with 8 bashy players and take 3 journeymen for the LOS. Sure, I give inducements equal to the cost of my journeymen, but if my opponent is expecting an even match, where my TV and my opponents TV are close, and then they suddenly find themselves getting 180k of inducements...
The journeymen work as a way to recover a team because they are included in the TV at the start. In a very large open league like the match making service on Cyanides game or here on Fumbbl, being able show a lower TV than what you actually have IS an exploitable error in the implementation of the rule.
In short, as I said at the top, if you're wanting to see how people react to the exploiting that this system opens up, just go and read some of the vile hate mail on the Cyanide forums about this particular change to the rules that they also failed to see the difference betweeen.
If you want to see what having journeymen added in the pregame does, just jump on the Cyanide forums and look at all the people complaining about it there. If it's not the bugs or the modification of local game data, it's the crappy implementation of journeymen in the pre-game sequence.
Very very typical example is having a bunch of skilled up bashy players, 6 or so. TV 1000ish. I then get ranked against new TV 1000 teams. I get 5 extra lino's and proceed to rip the newb's apart wtih my skilled up players.
Similarly if I have a team with 8 bashy players and take 3 journeymen for the LOS. Sure, I give inducements equal to the cost of my journeymen, but if my opponent is expecting an even match, where my TV and my opponents TV are close, and then they suddenly find themselves getting 180k of inducements...
The journeymen work as a way to recover a team because they are included in the TV at the start. In a very large open league like the match making service on Cyanides game or here on Fumbbl, being able show a lower TV than what you actually have IS an exploitable error in the implementation of the rule.
In short, as I said at the top, if you're wanting to see how people react to the exploiting that this system opens up, just go and read some of the vile hate mail on the Cyanide forums about this particular change to the rules that they also failed to see the difference betweeen.