Posted by harvestmouse on 2013-06-26 09:17:31
Team make up and balance is great. You have a lot of positionals and only 10 players though. I would look towards getting up to 13 players, so you have a few linemen to protect your nice players.
The make up of the witches means they won't last too long unfortunately.
Posted by Badoek on 2013-06-26 09:20:28
great stat rolls indeed!
I'm a lousy dark elf coach but like HM said: get more linemen. The +AG/-AV linemen should probably go.
Posted by pythrr on 2013-06-26 09:23:35
yeah, very nice
one thing i would add, would be to hold at this TV and save a few hundred grand before expanding to 13 players, otherwise you will be in the land of spiralling expenses and find it very hard to replace players.
Posted by koadah on 2013-06-26 09:25:15
Obscene team. You must have sold your soul to Nuffle. You'll regret it in the end.
Haven't played elves/ranked for ages but I'd say elfball until you can afford a bench.
I'd like a kicker and some wrestle. When you actually have some linos that is. ;)
Posted by jamesfarrell129 on 2013-06-26 09:27:53
Please can you roll my skill-ups in future? I want that many stat boosts on my teams.
Posted by Throweck on 2013-06-26 09:30:32
I have been trying to gain linos but they die a lot :(
Posted by Meanandugl on 2013-06-26 09:31:49
Amazing stat rolls, and almost all of them on key players. How to develop the team depends a bit on whom you want to play. If it's mainly fast and agile teams I would add more Tackle and DT. Next player I would buy is a runner. Skills I miss most are Guard and MB (completely absent so far, but of course you need doubles for them), and, not least, Kick.
Anyway, would love to coach a team like that. Could be great fx in XFL tourneys. Treat them carefully.
Just my 2 cents. I am no expert, let alone for delves.
Posted by Verminardo on 2013-06-26 09:46:46
There is really no such thing as the "best practice" for Dark Elves. So the only thing I can say is what I personally would do with the team.
* Buy another reroll.
* Fire the Assassin.
* Give Leap to the +AG Sure Hands guy. Don't use Leap for cage busting, you don't need that as DE. Use it for scoring and ball retrieval. (Therefore, I think taking Leap on both Witches was a waste.)
* Get some Guard and ideally Mighty Blow on one of the +ST players.
* Go up to 12 or 13 players.
* Get moar Side Step and some Diving Tackle.
* Grow a beard!
Posted by Endzone on 2013-06-26 09:48:01
Retire the -AV/+AG lineman. His job is screening your better players and he does that worse than your other lineman whilst costing more. Don't worry about your linemen dying - that is their job! Just replace them as best you can and try to give them blodge or wrodge to help with their screening duties and survivability.
Oh, and work on the beard.
Posted by koadah on 2013-06-26 10:01:22
Is this planned to be a tournament team or everyday play?
Posted by bghandras on 2013-06-26 10:01:44
I dont agree that leap is wasted on the witches. But i think that strip ball and tackle is. They are wonderful surfing machines with str4, and leap. Use accordingly, and side step is your friend. And of course guard would help too in the sideline scrum.
I would not use assasin or runner in this team as you have a decent ball carrier already who is very good on defense too.
All i would do is fire the injured, and try to develop new linos. I would take wrestle first for them. All the rest of the team screams for side step if you have no better idea. A mighty blow on the first double would be that said better idea, and a guard on all further double on most players except the witch would be another.
Posted by Throweck on 2013-06-26 10:05:40
Well they have been day to day play Koadah but I could always throw them into a tournament I guess. Haven't played many tourneys but this team might convince me.
Posted by koadah on 2013-06-26 10:05:51
What do people think about NOT buying linos until you have a big bank roll?
If the guys are just for protecting your stars and taking hits you may as well have free loners. If a guy skills then you can sign him.
Posted by bghandras on 2013-06-26 10:18:34
I think the site rules does not allow to arbitrary money AND loners. Somewhere i read that they do accept to have some money for positional replacement, but as a general strategy built around loners may result in warning / team retirement.
Posted by koadah on 2013-06-26 10:25:53
Better wait for admin response.
My personal rule is don't buy a lino until I have enough cash for two blitzers.
Posted by the_Sage on 2013-06-26 10:40:15
Team has the makings of legendhood; and so young! Gratz on rolling them, and try not to lose them. In fact; consider shelving them until you're a Majors-material coach, then return to them to make them into your majors team. =D
As for how to build them: I have to agree with much of what was said.
Lose the -AV and the ass.
Getting leap on the two AG5s is great (S4 2+ leap tackler? Yes please!). And then the sure hands guy for retrieval.
I agree with Verminardo that the 2x leap on the witches is a bit much; however, if you're willing to risk your S4AV7 guys making 3+ leaps for surfs all the time, it's also a great (and short-lasting) weapon.
I disagree with bg about tackle: it's great on witches. Strip ball; not so much.
I think that as long as you're under 300k or so, having <11 players is acceptable.
First witch to roll doubles: juggernaut.
First blitzer to roll doubles: mighty blow (followed by tackle, jump up, hope for PO).
Sprinkle with guard.
Kick lino is good, wrestle linos are good; once you get to 12 or 14, consider a dp.
Posted by andr_e on 2013-06-26 10:42:24
I think that loner rules says something like if you have enaugh money to buy the 12th player, you cannot have journeymen on your roster (not a problem on 1 or 2 games).
Waiting for the reserves, I probably would
-fire the +ag-av player
-give leap to both the ag5 blitzers (so you can jump in a cage and make a 2d block with tackle, then pick up with the other one)
-give side step and DT to the other two blitzer (MB or Guard on doubles, any stat, +ma over +av)
-give ss to the WE without it, then tackle or fend, it depends on how you want to play them (on doubles MB or Juggernaut for surfing/stripballing, especially on Lorenza)
-give kick to a lineman
-fire the assassin if it's not a fluffy thing, but only after buying the reserves
Posted by andr_e on 2013-06-26 10:44:26
ops... I noticed now that I wrote quite the same things of The_Sage, sorry
Posted by Throweck on 2013-06-26 11:42:40
Thank you for all your suggestions chaps.
I have a direction to go in now. Any further thoughts would be appreciated.
Posted by koadah on 2013-06-26 12:11:12
"I think that loner rules says something like if you have enaugh money to buy the 12th player, you cannot have journeymen on your roster"
That is just another personal rule. The admins will not publicly tell anyone what the loner rule is.
I think it's a bummer and discourages people from using elves in the Box. At 70k a lino you cannot afford to keep pouring money into players with such short life expectancy.
It is pretty irritating when teams like chaos & zons build cash reserves so easily.
I'd be surprised if you even got a warning if you had less than 250k. But I'm not an admin.
Posted by the_Sage on 2013-06-26 14:32:58
Well I guess this discussion did spark some interest.
250k is too much to play with 10 rostered players, even when rookie blitzers cost 110 a pop (and boy do they pop).
Posted by koadah on 2013-06-26 14:44:43
I suppose that is what you get for running a team like that.
You're better off running min/max pact.
Posted by billiebob on 2013-06-26 15:54:31
This site needs a sarcasm detector!
Posted by Retro21 on 2013-06-26 15:54:46
wow, that is a helluva frightening team! Ag AND St, bloody hell.
Posted by Throweck on 2013-06-26 16:10:15
Just to make it clear, I do not know enough about min/maxing to even try! lol
So you won't see me looking for easy wins (usually) :D
Posted by the_Sage on 2013-06-26 16:11:22
Yeah kaodah, teams like that really ruin what this site is all about. ;)
Well retro, it's not so much a frightening team as it is one very frightening player... who I need to use in a farly dangerous way. If my opponent manages to get him off the pitch, there isn't much left. =)
Posted by harvestmouse on 2013-06-26 16:32:50
Well if that's your attitude in public, allow me to retort.
*The site is about playing the game within the spirit of the rules. There's some real metagaming spew in this thread.
Using JM as you have been, certainly isn't the case. If you're going to piss in the wind, I'd keep stum and not draw attention to the fact, and certainly not recommend others to do it.
You have a nice enjoyable team throweck. Play them how you wish to. Is the assassin cost effective? No. However who cares, it's not all about blitzer/linemen only rosters to win at any cost at an optimum TV with 11 players only.
And how about your -AV +AG player. Yeah sure he's not cost effective either, but I'm sure he could be a lot of fun. You could make a thrower, or a leaper or even a +ag dp player out of him.
Leap Witches. Yeah it's a bit crazy, but so what.
Play how you want to. If you want to metagame to get one round further in a major, that's fine. But it doesn't sound a lot of fun to me. Compared to how much fun you could have with this team.
Posted by Throweck on 2013-06-26 16:42:09
Thanks. I do not know what JM is or what my attitude has been? sorry, still a noob at heart.
Posted by harvestmouse on 2013-06-26 16:53:51
Attitude-wasn't aimed at you.
JM- Journey man.
Posted by Throweck on 2013-06-26 17:20:53
Posted by C3I2 on 2013-06-27 11:49:31
First of all, do not listen to Harvestmouse, in regards to meta-gaming and developing a DE team. He likes to recommend that you play more then 11 players when current rules does not support that for continuous gaming at high level. You may get more at tournaments and the game or two games before for a skill up, after the tournament you will have a long build up faze again.
Your team, will due to the stat rolls peak at higher TV then my top team, so say 2500 ish, with no income. I tend to develop my linemen early, and play elfbowl quite a bit, to not lose so many but they will die even then.
The unskilled linemen will keep the TV down, but you will suffer significantly higher losses on low skilled linemen, then I do. Leaving you hard up to replace them at your current power, and making it close to impossible higher where you get less money.
So, what you want to do is to feed the linos some SPPs from passes, pick wrestle at first skill and dodge OR sidestep as second. Wrestle alone will reduce losses quite a bit, two skills factors more.
I think you should keep the assassin until he dies, however. Multiple block on doubles, sidestep+Jump up, wrestle/block on normal rolls.
Othervise just go with The Sage, MB on one blitzer (double) at least one Juggernaut if not two on the WEs, on doubles. Lots and lots of sidestep on all support i.e. all that can take it due to not having rolled so much stats they dont have slots for it. You will have fun with several leap guys, and while I tried to only have two, I now recommend more if you roll right (so you can take losses).
Posted by koadah on 2013-06-27 12:38:34
More than 11 players is good if you can afford them. Hence using journeymen early and staying at low TV to build your bankroll.
I have no problem with going 13,14 or even 15 players. Especially if they are cheap.
As for wrestle as first skill on linos... I'd only do that if I was planning on a fair stint of elf balling. IMO dodge first gives you a better chance when you come up against tougher bashers so you can mix it up more and go into a tournament sooner.
But, yeah. The team is in a 'competitive division'. It shouldn't be a shock if people try to offer competitive advice.
Personally I would probably run a second team of the same race. Elf ball with this one but mix it up more with the other one. Gotta get that basher experience. ;)
If you get them both to high TV then you have a back up in case one is massacred by a wussy looking team on tournament's eve. ;)
Posted by C3I2 on 2013-06-27 14:45:25
Team is to high in power to go with Dodge first, for linemen you Put on the line. While opponents might not have 4 Tackle players, they will have several usually.
Posted by koadah on 2013-06-27 15:45:00
Fair point. I must have been playing too much Box. ;)
Posted by harvestmouse on 2013-06-27 18:05:17
And my retort
First of all do not listen to C3I2 (unless you want to) and listen to me (if you I make sense to you). He's playing a metagame that specifically targets elven teams.
Kind of like you know when fish go to get cleaned by a cleaner fish, and there's that one fish that looks like a cleaner fish but isn't and actually rips chunks out of the fish instead of cleaning it.
That's him, to the elfball community. Play like that if you wish, but it's not healthy.
It is in the high echelons of metagaming. His past blogs/forum topics about it have shown to be unpopular.
Second of all. C3I2, I advise you do listen to harvestmouse. Otherwise you're in for some unhappy times.
Bottom line is. If you want to metagame, fine there's nothing stopping you (bar yourself).