10 coaches online • Server time: 05:33
* * * Did you know? The highest gate in a single match is 243000.
Recent Forum Topics  Gnome Roster - how a... | Gnomes are trash | All Star Bowl! |
2011-07-27 09:52:12
11 votes, rating 4.8
11 votes, rating 4.8
Fantasy Blood Bowl League Rules (InDev, C&C welcome)
This blog will be constantly updated as I iron out the rules, but all the same comments vouching support or giving ideas, criticisms and compliments will be greatly appreciated.
First though, the basic idea behind this league. Ever since I first heard the new client's name (Fantasy Football), this idea's been rattling around in the back of my head and taking form. For those of you who don't know already, Fantasy Football is a pastime done in at least the US, and probably elsewhere (Us Canadians sometimes do hockey ones), where every participant chooses players from various teams in a league, keeping track of their performances, and determining a winner either on a weekly basis (total up the performance of players on either side for that round in the league, winner wins the "match"), or on a seasonal basis (total up performance of all players for the whole season, whichever roster performed the best wins). And that's the concept behind this league.
Fantasy Blood Bowl League (FBBL)
The league would run much like most leagues do, with a basic season progression with each team facing the others in their conference once. There would have to be at least two conferences, meaning an absolute minimum of 12 or so players. Depending on the amount of participants, a draft system similar to SWL's or other large leagues may be put in place.
The round deadlines would be on Wednesdays. You would get 3 points for a win, 1 for a tie, 0 for a loss.
In terms of actual gameplay this league would not boast any particularly unique features, and the standard rules would be used for play in the Blood Bowl aspect of the conferences. Every season the conferences would be scrambled randomly, unless/until there were enough coaches to start dividing into tiered leagues. However, as mentioned, the gameplay isn't what's special about the league. It's the Fantasy Blood Bowl, herein referred to as FBB.
FBB Rules
The coaches would never play FBB with their own teams, instead each conference would be assigned another conference, and the coaches would play using the players and teams of the assigned conference.
At the beginning of every season, once all teams were created and the schedule for the coming season was set, there would then be the draft for the FBB rosters.
(At this point I have 2 different proposed ways to carry out a draft, both of which will be laid out below. Say which one you think is better if you comment please)
Auctioning
Auctioning would work like so; every coach would be given 2000k with which to purchase a team of 11-16 players (perhaps lower limits or no minimum limit? Again, comment if you think something would be better). A forum thread would be opened, and the group admin would keep track of current running prices in the top post, although the current bidders would have to look for the player they were buying through the thread due to the admin not spending his whole life in that thread. The starting asking price would be the player's value including skills and +stats (but not injuries) while the minimum increment value would be 1/3 of the player's cost, rounding up (so a human lineman (50k) with a normal skill and a double would have a starting price of 100k, and a minimum bidding increment of 40k). Bidding on a player would close after 24 hours of no more bids, and the last coach who bid the highest would get the player and have the amount he spent reduced from his treasury (and no, you can't use that 2000k in your own team). The auctioning period would last 2 weeks, after which all bids are immediately closed (might try to do something about snipers (bid at last second to get it, done on ebay lots), although the 24 hour rule means that sniping would be situational at best. What happens if your team has less than 11 players by the end of it all? I'd probably say you're disqualified from the FBB for that season, after all it's highly unlikely that every player is a hot enough choice to have coaches bidding enough to run you bankrupt before 11, especially considering everyone has 2000k to spend. If worse comes to worst, the auctioning money would be increased as the average TV does. Perhaps the average TW of the conference times 2? (again, in the comments, suggestions welcome)
(Just so you know, red means that idea is not part of the rules anymore, just there for archive purposes)
Drafting
The other option for FBB is drafting. At first randomly, but later using a system increasing the likelyhood of last season's loser to go first, every coach would pick a player to buy, in turn until everyone's happy with their team and passes. The prices of the players would be increased from the auction (perhaps 200%, especially if the amount of spending money scales with average TW). This system would be simpler, but wouldn't be as fun or hectic as the auction. It also would appeal more to the lazy/less active coaches. Again, whatever system you think is best, comment please.
The way this would work would be as so; Every coach would be informed of their spot in the queue after the draft order has been determined, and then they will all be required to send in a list of up to 30 (possibly change the number depending on size of league) players from the appropriate conference. Then, the admin would run through all the lists, picking the first available and affordable player for each coach in the draft order until either all the lists have been exhausted, or every team has reached 11 players. Once a team reaches 11 players, it does not pick any more players even if they are available when admin comes back to them. After this is the secondary draft to get your up-to-5 reserves; every coach is informed via the forums of which players they have, how much cash they have, and by extension, also the cash and players of the other FBB rosters, as well as all the "free agents" (non-selected players). Coaches now may send in another list of up to 20 players (deliberately giving them lots of space in this) they would like to purchase, and the same draft order is used to run through it again until all lists are exhausted or rosters are at 16 players.
FBB During The Season
Purchasing Players
Now, this being Blood Bowl and not real life American Football, your FBB roster is bound to lose a player or four at some point during one of the seasons, so to balance this back, you can purchase new players during the season, among other things. Every coach would be given 500k to spend on replacements during the season after the auction/draft is over (they also keep what was left over from the auction/draft 2000k). During the season, players would simply PM the admin with the player they'd like to purchase and their asking price. Then, at the end of the round's deadline, the admin adds the player to the highest bid's FBB roster. The minimum asking price would probably be the player's value times 2. If you purchase a player, you do not get points for the previous matches it was in, only in future matches for the season. If a team "plays ahead" of the deadlines, the coach who purchased a player on that team gets points as if they had gotten the player at the moment they entered their bid (because of the complications this could bring up, playing ahead would NOT be encouraged). Coaches are not allowed to retract their bids once sent to the admin. If the player dies or is retired before the end of the round, all the bidders can keep their money as this would be a cruel and pointless punishment.
(The above paragraph could probably use some rewording and tweaks)
Trading Players
Trading is done (almost) completely separately from the admins, and is carried out as follows; the coaches who wish to trade either players or gold or both approach each other via PM and haggle their way to an acceptable trade for both of them. They then either add the admin to their conversation (only once the haggling is over to avoid inbox-clogging) or both send the admin a seperate message with the final terms of their agreement. The admin makes sure that both sides agree and are consistent, and at the end of the round, edits the rosters appropriately.
(Any recommended tweaks?)
Winning the FBB Competition
This league would work on a round-by-round basis in parallel with the actual Blood Bowl; the FBB rosters would have fixtures themselves, and the winner of each "match" would be determined not just by Touchdowns, but by a points system to be determined later. Every round's points would be determined by the player performances in their respective round.
The round deadlines in FBB take place one week before the round deadlines for the actual games, to prevent the coaches playing the games from beating the FBB players to it. Up until the deadline, the coach of the FBB roster can PM the admin with their lineup, which is the 11 players they wish to use for their next matchup. They can change this at ANY point prior to the deadline. If the roster doesn't have 11 players available for the next round (MNGs and retirement/death), then that coach will be at quite a disadvantage. If the coach fails to send in a lineup, then the last lineup sent in will be used instead, with empty slots being filled by the players with the highest values. If no lineup is ever sent for whatever reason, then it is assumed that the top ten players with the highest monetary values are used.
Ex: Alice's FBB roster faces Bob's FBB roster in round 1. Both of them total up the points that the players on their rosters earned in round 1, and the winner is thus determined. In round 2, points from round 1 are ignored.
(Still working on a points system, comments and ideas/tweaks welcome)
TD: 7 points
CAS: 5 points
INT: 5 points
COMP: 3 point
MVP: 0 points
RUSH YARDS: 1/2 per yard
PASS YARDS: 1 per yard
BLOCKS: 1/4 per block
FOULS: 1/4 per foul
BONUS POINTS:
Larson (1 TD, 1 Cas, 1 Int, 1 CP): Normal points+5 (one larson per player per game)
Hat Trick (3 TD): Normal points+4 (multiple hat tricks per player per game allowed)
Whichever FBB roster has the most points for that round "wins" the match. Whichever FBB roster has the most league points at the end of the season wins glory for the best predictions!
_______________
So that's what I have so far. What do you think? Again, I might be editing quite a bit in the future, but I believe that this is reasonably solid for a first draft. Any glaring possible exploits that you can see, please warn me, and if you're interested, mention that too :P
Thanks very much
Enigma
(New Addition with edit #1: I've noticed one minor problem; playing ahead would be a MASSIVE pain in the arse for the commissioner and the players, and so would have to be outlawed. No way to enforce it with standard league plugins that I can see however, aside from hiding matchups until they arrive. Don't know if that's possible. Any ideas?)
First though, the basic idea behind this league. Ever since I first heard the new client's name (Fantasy Football), this idea's been rattling around in the back of my head and taking form. For those of you who don't know already, Fantasy Football is a pastime done in at least the US, and probably elsewhere (Us Canadians sometimes do hockey ones), where every participant chooses players from various teams in a league, keeping track of their performances, and determining a winner either on a weekly basis (total up the performance of players on either side for that round in the league, winner wins the "match"), or on a seasonal basis (total up performance of all players for the whole season, whichever roster performed the best wins). And that's the concept behind this league.
Fantasy Blood Bowl League (FBBL)
The league would run much like most leagues do, with a basic season progression with each team facing the others in their conference once. There would have to be at least two conferences, meaning an absolute minimum of 12 or so players. Depending on the amount of participants, a draft system similar to SWL's or other large leagues may be put in place.
The round deadlines would be on Wednesdays. You would get 3 points for a win, 1 for a tie, 0 for a loss.
In terms of actual gameplay this league would not boast any particularly unique features, and the standard rules would be used for play in the Blood Bowl aspect of the conferences. Every season the conferences would be scrambled randomly, unless/until there were enough coaches to start dividing into tiered leagues. However, as mentioned, the gameplay isn't what's special about the league. It's the Fantasy Blood Bowl, herein referred to as FBB.
FBB Rules
The coaches would never play FBB with their own teams, instead each conference would be assigned another conference, and the coaches would play using the players and teams of the assigned conference.
At the beginning of every season, once all teams were created and the schedule for the coming season was set, there would then be the draft for the FBB rosters.
(At this point I have 2 different proposed ways to carry out a draft, both of which will be laid out below. Say which one you think is better if you comment please)
Auctioning
Auctioning would work like so; every coach would be given 2000k with which to purchase a team of 11-16 players (perhaps lower limits or no minimum limit? Again, comment if you think something would be better). A forum thread would be opened, and the group admin would keep track of current running prices in the top post, although the current bidders would have to look for the player they were buying through the thread due to the admin not spending his whole life in that thread. The starting asking price would be the player's value including skills and +stats (but not injuries) while the minimum increment value would be 1/3 of the player's cost, rounding up (so a human lineman (50k) with a normal skill and a double would have a starting price of 100k, and a minimum bidding increment of 40k). Bidding on a player would close after 24 hours of no more bids, and the last coach who bid the highest would get the player and have the amount he spent reduced from his treasury (and no, you can't use that 2000k in your own team). The auctioning period would last 2 weeks, after which all bids are immediately closed (might try to do something about snipers (bid at last second to get it, done on ebay lots), although the 24 hour rule means that sniping would be situational at best. What happens if your team has less than 11 players by the end of it all? I'd probably say you're disqualified from the FBB for that season, after all it's highly unlikely that every player is a hot enough choice to have coaches bidding enough to run you bankrupt before 11, especially considering everyone has 2000k to spend. If worse comes to worst, the auctioning money would be increased as the average TV does. Perhaps the average TW of the conference times 2? (again, in the comments, suggestions welcome)
(Just so you know, red means that idea is not part of the rules anymore, just there for archive purposes)
Drafting
The other option for FBB is drafting. At first randomly, but later using a system increasing the likelyhood of last season's loser to go first, every coach would pick a player to buy, in turn until everyone's happy with their team and passes. The prices of the players would be increased from the auction (perhaps 200%, especially if the amount of spending money scales with average TW). This system would be simpler, but wouldn't be as fun or hectic as the auction. It also would appeal more to the lazy/less active coaches. Again, whatever system you think is best, comment please.
The way this would work would be as so; Every coach would be informed of their spot in the queue after the draft order has been determined, and then they will all be required to send in a list of up to 30 (possibly change the number depending on size of league) players from the appropriate conference. Then, the admin would run through all the lists, picking the first available and affordable player for each coach in the draft order until either all the lists have been exhausted, or every team has reached 11 players. Once a team reaches 11 players, it does not pick any more players even if they are available when admin comes back to them. After this is the secondary draft to get your up-to-5 reserves; every coach is informed via the forums of which players they have, how much cash they have, and by extension, also the cash and players of the other FBB rosters, as well as all the "free agents" (non-selected players). Coaches now may send in another list of up to 20 players (deliberately giving them lots of space in this) they would like to purchase, and the same draft order is used to run through it again until all lists are exhausted or rosters are at 16 players.
FBB During The Season
Purchasing Players
Now, this being Blood Bowl and not real life American Football, your FBB roster is bound to lose a player or four at some point during one of the seasons, so to balance this back, you can purchase new players during the season, among other things. Every coach would be given 500k to spend on replacements during the season after the auction/draft is over (they also keep what was left over from the auction/draft 2000k). During the season, players would simply PM the admin with the player they'd like to purchase and their asking price. Then, at the end of the round's deadline, the admin adds the player to the highest bid's FBB roster. The minimum asking price would probably be the player's value times 2. If you purchase a player, you do not get points for the previous matches it was in, only in future matches for the season. If a team "plays ahead" of the deadlines, the coach who purchased a player on that team gets points as if they had gotten the player at the moment they entered their bid (because of the complications this could bring up, playing ahead would NOT be encouraged). Coaches are not allowed to retract their bids once sent to the admin. If the player dies or is retired before the end of the round, all the bidders can keep their money as this would be a cruel and pointless punishment.
(The above paragraph could probably use some rewording and tweaks)
Trading Players
Trading is done (almost) completely separately from the admins, and is carried out as follows; the coaches who wish to trade either players or gold or both approach each other via PM and haggle their way to an acceptable trade for both of them. They then either add the admin to their conversation (only once the haggling is over to avoid inbox-clogging) or both send the admin a seperate message with the final terms of their agreement. The admin makes sure that both sides agree and are consistent, and at the end of the round, edits the rosters appropriately.
(Any recommended tweaks?)
Winning the FBB Competition
This league would work on a round-by-round basis in parallel with the actual Blood Bowl; the FBB rosters would have fixtures themselves, and the winner of each "match" would be determined not just by Touchdowns, but by a points system to be determined later. Every round's points would be determined by the player performances in their respective round.
The round deadlines in FBB take place one week before the round deadlines for the actual games, to prevent the coaches playing the games from beating the FBB players to it. Up until the deadline, the coach of the FBB roster can PM the admin with their lineup, which is the 11 players they wish to use for their next matchup. They can change this at ANY point prior to the deadline. If the roster doesn't have 11 players available for the next round (MNGs and retirement/death), then that coach will be at quite a disadvantage. If the coach fails to send in a lineup, then the last lineup sent in will be used instead, with empty slots being filled by the players with the highest values. If no lineup is ever sent for whatever reason, then it is assumed that the top ten players with the highest monetary values are used.
Ex: Alice's FBB roster faces Bob's FBB roster in round 1. Both of them total up the points that the players on their rosters earned in round 1, and the winner is thus determined. In round 2, points from round 1 are ignored.
(Still working on a points system, comments and ideas/tweaks welcome)
TD: 7 points
CAS: 5 points
INT: 5 points
COMP: 3 point
MVP: 0 points
RUSH YARDS: 1/2 per yard
PASS YARDS: 1 per yard
BLOCKS: 1/4 per block
FOULS: 1/4 per foul
BONUS POINTS:
Larson (1 TD, 1 Cas, 1 Int, 1 CP): Normal points+5 (one larson per player per game)
Hat Trick (3 TD): Normal points+4 (multiple hat tricks per player per game allowed)
Whichever FBB roster has the most points for that round "wins" the match. Whichever FBB roster has the most league points at the end of the season wins glory for the best predictions!
_______________
So that's what I have so far. What do you think? Again, I might be editing quite a bit in the future, but I believe that this is reasonably solid for a first draft. Any glaring possible exploits that you can see, please warn me, and if you're interested, mention that too :P
Thanks very much
Enigma
(New Addition with edit #1: I've noticed one minor problem; playing ahead would be a MASSIVE pain in the arse for the commissioner and the players, and so would have to be outlawed. No way to enforce it with standard league plugins that I can see however, aside from hiding matchups until they arrive. Don't know if that's possible. Any ideas?)
Comments
Posted by Garion on 2011-07-27 10:09:10
Looks like fun, will be very hard to run i think. I like that you get poitns for doing GFIs. I can jsut see everyone doing GFIs at the end of every turn to rack up those half points :D
Posted by Enigma179 on 2011-07-27 10:12:21
How do you get points for the GFI? Unless you make a point of gfi-ing necessarily before a pass or handoff, no reason why doing a GFI would add points you won't already get if you have the ball next turn.
And besides you don't get points for your own players, each conference plays fantasy with the other conference(s). I considered allowing you to play with your own teams, but then it was pointed out to me the exploits possible with it.
And besides you don't get points for your own players, each conference plays fantasy with the other conference(s). I considered allowing you to play with your own teams, but then it was pointed out to me the exploits possible with it.
Posted by gjopie on 2011-07-27 10:22:32
I liked this idea when I first heard it, and its grown on me since. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if I'll have time to play, but I hope I might.
Personally, I'd go for the draft system. The auction could be cool, but as you say it'd be pretty chaotic and might be tricky to put together 11 half-decent players for the not-so-active coaches. The draft has the advantage of helping out the worst coaches for next season too.
As for the scoring system, I'd personally prefer something like the fantasy football we have in the UK for the Premier League; your team gets points each week based on how your players perform, and then the team with the most at the end wins, rather than being paired up against an opponent each week.
Either way, I would suggest having a team of 11 players, possibly allowing a set number of "substitutes", which you have to name in advance and which don't get any points unless you sub them in to your main team or someone from your main team doesn't play that round. That way, you don't get an unfair advantage for having more players.
To make it easier to run, maybe just limit everyone to 11 players total, which would also have the benefit of encouraging more trades and auctions mid-season, which I think sounds really fun.
Personally, I'd go for the draft system. The auction could be cool, but as you say it'd be pretty chaotic and might be tricky to put together 11 half-decent players for the not-so-active coaches. The draft has the advantage of helping out the worst coaches for next season too.
As for the scoring system, I'd personally prefer something like the fantasy football we have in the UK for the Premier League; your team gets points each week based on how your players perform, and then the team with the most at the end wins, rather than being paired up against an opponent each week.
Either way, I would suggest having a team of 11 players, possibly allowing a set number of "substitutes", which you have to name in advance and which don't get any points unless you sub them in to your main team or someone from your main team doesn't play that round. That way, you don't get an unfair advantage for having more players.
To make it easier to run, maybe just limit everyone to 11 players total, which would also have the benefit of encouraging more trades and auctions mid-season, which I think sounds really fun.
Posted by gjopie on 2011-07-27 10:35:09
Another quick thought: If you used the draft system, you could order it so the best performing coaches in the real blood bowl leagues get first pick, so that the actual leagues mean something.
You'd then be competing to get first choice of players.
You'd then be competing to get first choice of players.
Posted by Rabe on 2011-07-27 10:37:56
I also like this idea!
Something that came to my mind: If interest is high enough on both sides of the Atlantic, you could make one conference (basically) US-based and one European-based (coaches from elsewhere join the division that suits them best). For the FBB part it's not that important when the teams play (I guess), and this way you would minimize problems with time zone differences.
Keep on the good work! :-)
Something that came to my mind: If interest is high enough on both sides of the Atlantic, you could make one conference (basically) US-based and one European-based (coaches from elsewhere join the division that suits them best). For the FBB part it's not that important when the teams play (I guess), and this way you would minimize problems with time zone differences.
Keep on the good work! :-)
Posted by Enigma179 on 2011-07-27 11:06:54
Thanks for the comments gents.
gjopie: Yeah, I can see a lot of problems with the auction, and as fun as it is, unless we can get everyone involved into an irc room together for an hour or so every season, I don't see it really working out. Would have been great fun, but if this isn't a timezone based league (which it isn't), then it would be very very hard to do properly.
I considered the scoring system that you're saying before this one actually, where you total up points. However, that one would be more complex to organize imo, especially what with the trades and buy-outs going on midseason.
I also think that the FBB roster rules could use some work on my part, I like your idea of picking 11 players per round from a roster of max 16 or so, would make taking hits midseason less devastating if you had reserves. However, I'd rather not limit teams to 11 players total, the reserves should be there for MNGs and the like, so if you still want a full squad for your next FBB matchup you don't need to buy a free agent and lose your star.
Rabe: Well, if interest is indeed high and even enough for both sides, I'll definitely try to organize conferences like that, but I think I'll only really have to bring it up when it happens. If it did, that would be fantastic though.
Going to make/just made a few edits to the rules.
gjopie: Yeah, I can see a lot of problems with the auction, and as fun as it is, unless we can get everyone involved into an irc room together for an hour or so every season, I don't see it really working out. Would have been great fun, but if this isn't a timezone based league (which it isn't), then it would be very very hard to do properly.
I considered the scoring system that you're saying before this one actually, where you total up points. However, that one would be more complex to organize imo, especially what with the trades and buy-outs going on midseason.
I also think that the FBB roster rules could use some work on my part, I like your idea of picking 11 players per round from a roster of max 16 or so, would make taking hits midseason less devastating if you had reserves. However, I'd rather not limit teams to 11 players total, the reserves should be there for MNGs and the like, so if you still want a full squad for your next FBB matchup you don't need to buy a free agent and lose your star.
Rabe: Well, if interest is indeed high and even enough for both sides, I'll definitely try to organize conferences like that, but I think I'll only really have to bring it up when it happens. If it did, that would be fantastic though.
Going to make/just made a few edits to the rules.
Posted by gjopie on 2011-07-27 11:32:27
I'm not sure that the other scoring system is necessarily more work, especially if you have more than one admin helping out. You'd just need to collect everyone's points each round and add them to the total - which is something you'd need to do for the match-up system anyway. But if you prefer it this way, thats fine too - it is your idea, after all!
I like your idea of having players send in their line-ups a week ahead of schedule, although one problem with that is if one of the main line-up gets injured the week before. Maybe have a contingency plan for that issue, should it arise?
I'd also point out that the FFB teams can only have as many players in them as the real BB teams have - and at the start of the first season, that is unlikely to be more than 11/12 each.
I like your idea of having players send in their line-ups a week ahead of schedule, although one problem with that is if one of the main line-up gets injured the week before. Maybe have a contingency plan for that issue, should it arise?
I'd also point out that the FFB teams can only have as many players in them as the real BB teams have - and at the start of the first season, that is unlikely to be more than 11/12 each.
Posted by Enigma179 on 2011-07-27 11:34:25
Well since you have the week, assuming your teams get their matches done before their deadline, and preferably not on the midnight of their deadline, you should have at least sometime to do the relatively simple task of sending in that list.
Posted by GAZZATROT on 2011-07-27 13:50:12
Hey Enigma, I think this is a great idea. I have run a lot of "Real-Life" "Fantasy" (Ha-Ha) teams leagues in the past.
I think you have certainly thought through the process very well, however for what my VERY HUMBLE opinion is worth....
1. I'm not so keen on the "playing v an opponent idea" as gjopie stated, I think just accumulating points throughout the season is a more fun and clean cut method, it also encourages you to look at other peoples teams rather than just your own. Such as hoping that a leagues front-runner's team fail in a week, rather than just your immediate opponents. In my experience it makes for a more community based league with lots of banter.
2. The biggest issue has always been the transferring of players throughout the season. To the point where I realised the best way when running said leagues at an amateur level, is to not have any transfers. It removes so much of the hassle and potential arguments, and actually makes you very loyal to the players you have chosen. One of the biggest reasons in real life that a Football (or Soccer for the Americans out there) Fantasy league has transfers is because players lose form (Form doesn't really exist in Blood-Bowl) or for long term injuries as you don't want to be going for 8 months with a crocked player. Well here if your player is Injured/Killed it's only going to be for 8 games/ 8 weeks at worst.
The biggest reason I believe to not have transfers though is because of the BiG Guys et al. If you have transfers, everyone will just choose Gutter Runners Dark Elf Blitzers etc that will accumulate points quickly, if they die it wouldn't matter you just replace them with another. Therefore very few people would choose Trolls, Black Orc Blockers etc who gain points slowly, However they die less regularly, so may actually accumulate more points over a season through a Hare/Tortoise process. I think this would create a dilemma as to whether to get "flair, free-scorers" that die or a more durable player that never touches the ball, knowing they can't be replaced. For Fluff and enjoyment I know I'd love to watch a game with a League Leaders star Witch-Elf getting squished, knowing she can't be subbed.
3. I think for the first season at least there would be nothing wrong with just valuing all the players and letting everyone pick a straight team of 11 for the whole season. It would be much simpler than the ambitious ideas of drafts and transfers, which would allow you the chance to encounter any unseen challenges with relative ease.
It could be argued that there would be duplicate players. In my experience in real life it does happen, but not that much, certainly not enough to detract from the game and may even add to it... Also seeing as we are making a Fantasy League out of a Fantasy Game :D with no predecessor I think opinions will vary greatly.
All that said, I think this is a fantastic idea, please count me in!!
I think you have certainly thought through the process very well, however for what my VERY HUMBLE opinion is worth....
1. I'm not so keen on the "playing v an opponent idea" as gjopie stated, I think just accumulating points throughout the season is a more fun and clean cut method, it also encourages you to look at other peoples teams rather than just your own. Such as hoping that a leagues front-runner's team fail in a week, rather than just your immediate opponents. In my experience it makes for a more community based league with lots of banter.
2. The biggest issue has always been the transferring of players throughout the season. To the point where I realised the best way when running said leagues at an amateur level, is to not have any transfers. It removes so much of the hassle and potential arguments, and actually makes you very loyal to the players you have chosen. One of the biggest reasons in real life that a Football (or Soccer for the Americans out there) Fantasy league has transfers is because players lose form (Form doesn't really exist in Blood-Bowl) or for long term injuries as you don't want to be going for 8 months with a crocked player. Well here if your player is Injured/Killed it's only going to be for 8 games/ 8 weeks at worst.
The biggest reason I believe to not have transfers though is because of the BiG Guys et al. If you have transfers, everyone will just choose Gutter Runners Dark Elf Blitzers etc that will accumulate points quickly, if they die it wouldn't matter you just replace them with another. Therefore very few people would choose Trolls, Black Orc Blockers etc who gain points slowly, However they die less regularly, so may actually accumulate more points over a season through a Hare/Tortoise process. I think this would create a dilemma as to whether to get "flair, free-scorers" that die or a more durable player that never touches the ball, knowing they can't be replaced. For Fluff and enjoyment I know I'd love to watch a game with a League Leaders star Witch-Elf getting squished, knowing she can't be subbed.
3. I think for the first season at least there would be nothing wrong with just valuing all the players and letting everyone pick a straight team of 11 for the whole season. It would be much simpler than the ambitious ideas of drafts and transfers, which would allow you the chance to encounter any unseen challenges with relative ease.
It could be argued that there would be duplicate players. In my experience in real life it does happen, but not that much, certainly not enough to detract from the game and may even add to it... Also seeing as we are making a Fantasy League out of a Fantasy Game :D with no predecessor I think opinions will vary greatly.
All that said, I think this is a fantastic idea, please count me in!!
Posted by Enigma179 on 2011-07-27 14:15:12
Hey Gazza
1. The main reason I chose that method of playing vs. the opponent is because using that system makes it simpler to put in transfers and trading; you don't need to worry about starting to track player stats halfway through a season (presumably you'd get points only for what the player did while on your roster). Of course, if transfers and trading were eliminated as per point 2, this wouldn't be a problem at all, and I would gladly take it on, assuming the majority of players preferred it. Which brings us to point #2
2. I always liked the idea of transfers and trades in fantasy football, but indeed it would complicate the game if doable in the mid-season. How about this though; "free agents" (players not on any FBB roster) cannot be bought partway through the season at all, but coaches can still negotiate trades with each other in the way mentioned above. Trades instead of taking effect at the end of the round will take place immediately upon both PMs reaching the admin with a consistent agreement. If you lose a player, you won't be able to replace him for the rest of the season unless you're lucky enough to trade, so hopefully you have some reserves to keep yourself at 11 (although won't matter as much if the all-season route is taken).
3. I don't really know what you mean by this one. Are you saying coaches should be able to choose any players they'd like for the first season, including where more than one coach gets the same player? If so, I really don't like that idea personally, prefer the draft (although for season 1, probably a better idea to make the spendable cash 1000k). If you meant something else though, of course I'm all ears.
I was thinking that the FBB rosters should have the slate cleared every season, but another possibility would be to keep them from season to season, but allow the FBB coaches to fire players in the post season and draft new ones later. I personally prefer wiping the slate clean every season, as it is much simpler if a coach leaves the league or retires/changes his team, as well as putting every coach on even footing again instead of keeping that lucky bastard who drew first and picked the S4 wardancer at the top of the pile.
1. The main reason I chose that method of playing vs. the opponent is because using that system makes it simpler to put in transfers and trading; you don't need to worry about starting to track player stats halfway through a season (presumably you'd get points only for what the player did while on your roster). Of course, if transfers and trading were eliminated as per point 2, this wouldn't be a problem at all, and I would gladly take it on, assuming the majority of players preferred it. Which brings us to point #2
2. I always liked the idea of transfers and trades in fantasy football, but indeed it would complicate the game if doable in the mid-season. How about this though; "free agents" (players not on any FBB roster) cannot be bought partway through the season at all, but coaches can still negotiate trades with each other in the way mentioned above. Trades instead of taking effect at the end of the round will take place immediately upon both PMs reaching the admin with a consistent agreement. If you lose a player, you won't be able to replace him for the rest of the season unless you're lucky enough to trade, so hopefully you have some reserves to keep yourself at 11 (although won't matter as much if the all-season route is taken).
3. I don't really know what you mean by this one. Are you saying coaches should be able to choose any players they'd like for the first season, including where more than one coach gets the same player? If so, I really don't like that idea personally, prefer the draft (although for season 1, probably a better idea to make the spendable cash 1000k). If you meant something else though, of course I'm all ears.
I was thinking that the FBB rosters should have the slate cleared every season, but another possibility would be to keep them from season to season, but allow the FBB coaches to fire players in the post season and draft new ones later. I personally prefer wiping the slate clean every season, as it is much simpler if a coach leaves the league or retires/changes his team, as well as putting every coach on even footing again instead of keeping that lucky bastard who drew first and picked the S4 wardancer at the top of the pile.
Posted by GAZZATROT on 2011-07-27 15:08:41
1. Yes playing v an opponent makes it easier for transfers and trading, but as you saw I don't think we should have them.
2. As you stated it won't matter if the all season route is taken. I also feel there will be little to no trading done between players.
3. I was suggesting that people could have duplicate players, for simplicity. However a draft of course would be great fun, but difficult to co-ordinate.
3. (continued) I fully agree, teams should be wiped clean at the end of every season.
As a semi-side note, maybe the winners of the 2 conferences (Europe-U.S. as suggested) can play-off in a 1 off final as well in which the points for FBB still count.
2. As you stated it won't matter if the all season route is taken. I also feel there will be little to no trading done between players.
3. I was suggesting that people could have duplicate players, for simplicity. However a draft of course would be great fun, but difficult to co-ordinate.
3. (continued) I fully agree, teams should be wiped clean at the end of every season.
As a semi-side note, maybe the winners of the 2 conferences (Europe-U.S. as suggested) can play-off in a 1 off final as well in which the points for FBB still count.
Posted by Rabe on 2011-07-27 17:53:33
Why not start as simple as possible and add more options (trade/transfers) for a later season?
I'm not opposed to complex systems, they just tend to cause unpredictable problems, especially when you don't know some variables ahead of the start (number of coaches, level of commitment...). :-)
I'm not opposed to complex systems, they just tend to cause unpredictable problems, especially when you don't know some variables ahead of the start (number of coaches, level of commitment...). :-)
Posted by gjopie on 2011-07-27 18:42:53
I'm a big fan of having a small & simple first season to work out the kinks and to design/tweak the scoring system, etc. and then grow the idea naturally as it progresses. I think it is also more likely to actually get started that way!
I do still think a draft at the beginning is important, though. Although it is very different to the UK system of fantasy sports, I personally think it is important to limit it so that each player may only be on a single coach's team, rather than on several.
If we could get a European and an American conference going, I'd 100% get involved.
I do still think a draft at the beginning is important, though. Although it is very different to the UK system of fantasy sports, I personally think it is important to limit it so that each player may only be on a single coach's team, rather than on several.
If we could get a European and an American conference going, I'd 100% get involved.
Posted by Enigma179 on 2011-07-28 02:20:12
Simplicity for the first few seasons sounds good to me, and until players get better developed, there wouldn't be very much incentive to trade anyhow. However, one last idea that would probably come into the system along with trading later on in the league's life; contract extensions.
At the end of the season, once the last blood bowl game has been played and all the FBB rosters in every conference totaled up, winner declared and all, the FBB rosters will be cleared, with one exception; if you wish to keep a player for the next season without having to risk redrafting him, you may pay the player's value+100k. You must declare you are doing this before the team in question starts playing any friendlies in the post season (if friendlies were to be allowed, but probably won't be there). The extra 100k is so that you can guarantee you'll have him for the next season, and might be worth it on a strong player. Once trading comes in, it also gives an incentive for the FBB coaches to trade their gold as well as players. Of course, you can only extend the contract of players on your roster by the end of the season. The next draft will have all players available except for the ones who have had their contracts extended.
Also, I like the idea of not being to purchase free agents during the season, although trading as a later season concept I'm alright with. By not letting players that weren't drafted at the start into the rosters, you not only give the rookies some time to build before next draft, but it also means that (yep, Gazza was right) you have to have a balance between high-performance fast-burn players and the long-term CAS-causers to have a roster that will survive the season. May be putting up a "real" thread at some point next week, keep the advice coming though, still working on rules.
I'm thinking the first season or two should be simple to start out, just to catch any minor issues early; so there would be the drafting system (part of the fun, after all), the simple round robin league (and while it would be disallowed later on, playing ahead would be allowed in this season), the FBB rosters, and a points system. There would be no trading, mid-season hiring or head-to-head matches (total up points at end of season instead). There also would be no contract extensions in the post-season until a trading system was implemented, to allow coaches to build a good team without hoarding cash so they can keep their players (instead they would sell off their players during the season to get enough to extend contracts).
So it would be a relatively simple season with a draft, no trading or anything, and a points-total calculated at the end of the season.
At the end of the season, once the last blood bowl game has been played and all the FBB rosters in every conference totaled up, winner declared and all, the FBB rosters will be cleared, with one exception; if you wish to keep a player for the next season without having to risk redrafting him, you may pay the player's value+100k. You must declare you are doing this before the team in question starts playing any friendlies in the post season (if friendlies were to be allowed, but probably won't be there). The extra 100k is so that you can guarantee you'll have him for the next season, and might be worth it on a strong player. Once trading comes in, it also gives an incentive for the FBB coaches to trade their gold as well as players. Of course, you can only extend the contract of players on your roster by the end of the season. The next draft will have all players available except for the ones who have had their contracts extended.
Also, I like the idea of not being to purchase free agents during the season, although trading as a later season concept I'm alright with. By not letting players that weren't drafted at the start into the rosters, you not only give the rookies some time to build before next draft, but it also means that (yep, Gazza was right) you have to have a balance between high-performance fast-burn players and the long-term CAS-causers to have a roster that will survive the season. May be putting up a "real" thread at some point next week, keep the advice coming though, still working on rules.
I'm thinking the first season or two should be simple to start out, just to catch any minor issues early; so there would be the drafting system (part of the fun, after all), the simple round robin league (and while it would be disallowed later on, playing ahead would be allowed in this season), the FBB rosters, and a points system. There would be no trading, mid-season hiring or head-to-head matches (total up points at end of season instead). There also would be no contract extensions in the post-season until a trading system was implemented, to allow coaches to build a good team without hoarding cash so they can keep their players (instead they would sell off their players during the season to get enough to extend contracts).
So it would be a relatively simple season with a draft, no trading or anything, and a points-total calculated at the end of the season.
Posted by GAZZATROT on 2011-07-28 10:29:44
Keep it up Enigma, I'm watching the postings. :)