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2015-12-07 05:38:48
8 votes, rating 5.4
8 votes, rating 5.4
A Dozen Games: Orc
...Or how I learned to stop worrying and accept a tie.
This is the second in a series where I play 12 games with a team then give my impressions. Why twelve games? Hopefully that will be enough to get the basics of how a team plays, but nowhere near enough to be called an expert. I have seen advice that Orcs are a good team for a new player, but my experience with them makes me doubt this assertion.
Relative to my Human team, my orc line up has higher AV and much lower MA. Specifically, the starting Orc roster averaged an MA of 5.0 compared to the Human team's average 6.5 MA. There were multiple occasions were I failed to score a touchdown because I thought orcs were faster. After getting some +MA blitzers, this was less of a problem. Still, games that I should have won became ties as I could not get the final score despite having a clear advantage on the field.
Green Orks and Eggs
Note that score and casualties are fairly correlated. Orcs are pretty good on defense. However, the offense was difficult to execute correctly. Overall, games were pretty low scoring mostly due to my mistakes.
Record with orcs after one dozen games: 4/4/4
Lessons Learned
Assessment
Orcs are slow and bashy. On offense, most turns consist of a series of 2d blocks while the ball is safe in its cage. Once the grinder has done its work, scoring often involves a hand-off to a blitzer on turn 8. Defense is ideally the same grinder without having to worry about the ball. Because defense is easier with Orcs, kicking the ball in the first half is worth considering. Against most teams success can be measured by players on the pitch. Indeed, casualties for/against has been somewhat correlated with winning.
Bottom line: ORCS SMASH!!
Sal-utations
This is the second in a series where I play 12 games with a team then give my impressions. Why twelve games? Hopefully that will be enough to get the basics of how a team plays, but nowhere near enough to be called an expert. I have seen advice that Orcs are a good team for a new player, but my experience with them makes me doubt this assertion.
Relative to my Human team, my orc line up has higher AV and much lower MA. Specifically, the starting Orc roster averaged an MA of 5.0 compared to the Human team's average 6.5 MA. There were multiple occasions were I failed to score a touchdown because I thought orcs were faster. After getting some +MA blitzers, this was less of a problem. Still, games that I should have won became ties as I could not get the final score despite having a clear advantage on the field.
Green Orks and Eggs
| Opponent | Score | Casualties |
| Norse | 0-1 | 0-0 |
| Amazon | 1-1 | 1-0 |
| Necromantic | 0-2 | 0-2 |
| Norse | 0-0 | 2-0 |
| Undead | 0-0 | 2-1 |
| Chaos Pact | 0-1 | 2-2 |
| Skaven | 1-0 | 4-0 |
| Pro Elf | 2-0 | 3-2 |
| Dark Elf | 1-1 | 6-2 |
| Necromantic | 1-1 | 3-2 |
| Pro Elf | 0-2 | 1-1 |
| Khemri | 1-0 | 1-1 |
Note that score and casualties are fairly correlated. Orcs are pretty good on defense. However, the offense was difficult to execute correctly. Overall, games were pretty low scoring mostly due to my mistakes.
Record with orcs after one dozen games: 4/4/4
Lessons Learned
- Block is a really good skill. Black Orcs become significantly better with it.
- +MA is better than +AV because speed scores.
- Forming a cage is easy, but advancing a cage is significantly harder.
- Sometimes it is correct to kick instead of receive.
Assessment
Orcs are slow and bashy. On offense, most turns consist of a series of 2d blocks while the ball is safe in its cage. Once the grinder has done its work, scoring often involves a hand-off to a blitzer on turn 8. Defense is ideally the same grinder without having to worry about the ball. Because defense is easier with Orcs, kicking the ball in the first half is worth considering. Against most teams success can be measured by players on the pitch. Indeed, casualties for/against has been somewhat correlated with winning.
Bottom line: ORCS SMASH!!
Sal-utations
Comments
Posted by Jeffro on 2015-12-07 06:23:11
Something I've noticed from people in the beginning stages of positioning and cage forming... they believe that the "cage" itself has to move. In a sense that is true... but don't limit yourself to thinking it has to be the "same cage". Having the ball carrier go from cage to cage is easier and much more frustrating to defend. I never knew that until I played the likes of Purplechest and Purplegoo. After getting thoroughly out positioned and generally outplayed, it clicked! #1... I ain't that good. #2... lessons above.
Good luck, though! Great way to learn about all the races. I commend the learning process :)
Good luck, though! Great way to learn about all the races. I commend the learning process :)
Posted by NerdBird on 2015-12-07 06:40:40
Most people consider Orcs better for starters because when you make poor choices in turn events and cause players to get blocked, Orcs are more likely to survive. Also, because of the additional strength and block players you can block more efficiently. And in all honesty, they are not terribly slow but you are right, if you get out of position, the opponent will take advantage.
In games involving Orcs the score is generally going to be 2-1, 1-1 or 1-0. That's the safe play.
In games involving Orcs the score is generally going to be 2-1, 1-1 or 1-0. That's the safe play.
Posted by Munga on 2015-12-07 10:41:03
Welcome to Blood Bowl. You need to learn how to position yourself to prevent the opponent from pushing forward, while making use of your high strength and decent agility. At low TV, you are going to dominate control of the field. Make them risk single dice rolls against your players. After a few skills, orc defense is really hard to breach. You're just getting used to the team still, and I encourage you to stick with them. I highly agree with kicking first if you think you put up a proper defense at first. You will win wars of attrition against anything but claw heavy teams. Good team to get used to your positioning.
Posted by PaddyMick on 2015-12-07 10:44:39
Any thoughts on the troll, thrower, and goblins (which are considered optional)? Did you use any of them?
Posted by mekutata on 2015-12-07 11:04:17
If you want Goblins I suggest to take 11 or more of them and a Saw.
But I have seen some BB2 streamers using 2 or more Goblins. They suffer there though a bit because of the price raise for the Orc Blitzers.
But I have seen some BB2 streamers using 2 or more Goblins. They suffer there though a bit because of the price raise for the Orc Blitzers.
Posted by ArrestedDevelopment on 2015-12-07 11:11:56
Defence with 11 men is easier for every team, that isn't exclusive to Orcs.
This is especially true for a bashing team when you're still learning the game because you have essentially "lost" 5 players from any other duties when you form the cage (which is why caging too early against slow/equally bashy opposition is a poor move - the screen is usually better for early turns, get your bash on with as many players as possible and just keep the ballcarrier out of range or in multiple tacklezones).
Btw as an aside, that's two teams you've built now where you have not taken skills such as guard or tackle despite multiple players skilling. Black Orcs become significantly better as individuals with block, but the whole team becomes significantly better with guards.
This is especially true for a bashing team when you're still learning the game because you have essentially "lost" 5 players from any other duties when you form the cage (which is why caging too early against slow/equally bashy opposition is a poor move - the screen is usually better for early turns, get your bash on with as many players as possible and just keep the ballcarrier out of range or in multiple tacklezones).
Btw as an aside, that's two teams you've built now where you have not taken skills such as guard or tackle despite multiple players skilling. Black Orcs become significantly better as individuals with block, but the whole team becomes significantly better with guards.
Posted by jdm on 2015-12-07 18:42:25
I've watched a few of your replays and am by no means an excellent (or adequate) orc coach but a few things come to mind. They're all fairly simple but are easily forgotten in the heat of the game.
1. Hit with your guys with block. You were often deploying black orcs on the LoS at the set up. Try putting blitzers there with black orcs giving the assists so post-block the black orcs can move and mark some players.
2. Make your opponent dodge. Obviously this depends upon the team you're facing as man marking every team isn't essential but denying your opponents 2 die blocks because they've got a meat shield line orc or black orc picking his nose next to them really puts the pressure on them to have to get away. This works well against the majority of teams who don't have mass strength access (lizardmen etc), or are spread out over the pitch. Watch out for guard obviously.
3. If you're gonna do a tight X cage then make sure your corner players don't have opposing guys standing next to them. Echoing what Jeffro and ArrestedDevelopment said above, a rolling screen is often the way to go otherwise it's too easy to get your X cage boxed in on all sides.
4. Be careful who you're blocking if it's only 1 dice. It's often better to leave your orc marking another player of equal strength and then your opponent has to either block them with 1 die, dodge away, or bring in an assist which ties up 2 of their players to deal with your 1 orc.
5. Sure, speed isn't great on orcs compared to other races but if you're in a position where you need to move >8 squares in one turn then something has gone wrong earlier in the game.
Enjoyed reading your synopsis of orcs, keep up the good blogging work!
1. Hit with your guys with block. You were often deploying black orcs on the LoS at the set up. Try putting blitzers there with black orcs giving the assists so post-block the black orcs can move and mark some players.
2. Make your opponent dodge. Obviously this depends upon the team you're facing as man marking every team isn't essential but denying your opponents 2 die blocks because they've got a meat shield line orc or black orc picking his nose next to them really puts the pressure on them to have to get away. This works well against the majority of teams who don't have mass strength access (lizardmen etc), or are spread out over the pitch. Watch out for guard obviously.
3. If you're gonna do a tight X cage then make sure your corner players don't have opposing guys standing next to them. Echoing what Jeffro and ArrestedDevelopment said above, a rolling screen is often the way to go otherwise it's too easy to get your X cage boxed in on all sides.
4. Be careful who you're blocking if it's only 1 dice. It's often better to leave your orc marking another player of equal strength and then your opponent has to either block them with 1 die, dodge away, or bring in an assist which ties up 2 of their players to deal with your 1 orc.
5. Sure, speed isn't great on orcs compared to other races but if you're in a position where you need to move >8 squares in one turn then something has gone wrong earlier in the game.
Enjoyed reading your synopsis of orcs, keep up the good blogging work!
Posted by pythrr on 2015-12-09 05:22:40
This guy: "I have seen advice that Orcs are a good team for a new player, but my experience with them makes me doubt this assertion."
Pythrr: "Orcs are a good team for a new player"
Pythrr: "Orcs are a good team for a new player"
Posted by pythrr on 2015-12-09 05:23:55
^^ cos they, along with Humans and Undeads, teach you the value of positioning
Posted by pythrr on 2015-12-09 05:24:59
"kicking the ball in the first half is worth considering."
no, no it really is not.
no, no it really is not.