Posted by lizvis on 2013-03-29 12:07:33
you wouldn't want that FF to get too bulky, so its good to have a loss on occasion to help keep the FF in check. team build all the way. :|
Posted by harvestmouse on 2013-03-29 12:11:10
LRB 4 for sure. You really did need to spread the SPP around. CRP I wouldn't on a T16. T15, ok.
Posted by OenarLod on 2013-03-29 12:20:31
Never for me. I try to farm TD only when result is already decided (win or loss, it's the same). If the match is still undecided, I just go for the easiest TD.
In the Box, you just play to get a win (or at least a draw), I don't really get the pressure on team building. I see how it may be different in Ranked, but I play only tournaments in Ranked, so I never get a chance...
Posted by Strider84 on 2013-03-29 12:25:20
Box is Win is nothing, team building does not matter as they get killed anyways.
Ranked I use only to prep my teams for Majors and other tourneys
In league it might even make sense to lose a game to not risk players if already qualifies for playoffs or so.
Posted by B_SIDE on 2013-03-29 12:59:30
It totally depends on your goals. Is your goal just to win this one game? Score, stall, win, and give no consideration to SPP's. But if you have a tourney you're entering, a structured league to place in, etc... then your goals change. It's okay to lose games for team building, if it helps you reach your larger goal. It's up to each player to decide how to deal with these two (usually harmonious, but occasionally conflicting) seperate agendas. Consider pre-season American Football games, which are often lost because the coach substitutes his star players out of the game, in order to assess and develop his rookie players.
I, for one, am not much of a farmer. But I'm learning how to farm better the more I play in, and prep for, tournaments here on FUMBBL.
Posted by the_Sage on 2013-03-29 14:03:08
Depends a lot on the race and the situation. This is most relevant for lizardmen, since the both the value and ease of skink TDs and saurus TDs are so far apart. Here, I'm very focused on team building. It's not just about building the team fast (it will come with time) but about building it well. I tend to try and handoff to my AG1 players up til turn 15, even spending my last reroll, thus risking a 1/3 chance that my AG3 will not pick up on turn 16 (but I don't attempt the turn 16 with my AG1
Posted by Cloggy on 2013-03-29 14:23:42
I just got knocked out of my UI qualifier because I insisted on trying to skill a Longbeard.
In short: I tend to go for skilling players even if it endangers the result :)
Posted by PainState on 2013-03-29 15:52:07
Every body team builds...Some just dont call it that. Esepcially the Box coaches who think that only happens in Ranked.
Box just has a diffrent team build path than ranked teams. The ideal team build in Box is to focus all your SPP on your best 4 guys, usually the killer types and leave the rest of team in the rookie or 6+ range. That is team building, Box style.
Ranked gets the bad rap for team building because for a lot of coaches that means +STAT hunting. Build up your 4 best guys, dump them at 31+ if they dont have a +STAT and rinse and repeat.
Now the issue of risking a win to skill up a very hard player to skill up like a treeman or Long beard. Well they skill very slowly and have probally been sitting at 2 SPP away from a skill up for 20 games. Some coaches can not resist taking the chance because the reward is he can finally stop worrying about skilling that dang player up to 16+ which took 39 matches. The temptation is to great.
I will admit Cloggy did go over the top in the UI. Majors matches are the only time I do not attempt to skill up my slow skill up players. Let the SPP chips fall where they fall in Majors is my motto.
Posted by koadah on 2013-03-29 16:30:53
It's all a matter of choice.
To many coaches team building is an important part of the game. Others are not that bothered.
Building a good team will give you a better chance of winning in the future. But some will prioritise winning the current game much higher than some future game. Especially if they do not play that often and TV matching will always try to match them with a similar team.
Posted by the_Sage on 2013-03-29 16:45:46
I don't agree Koadah. It's not about increasing TV more quickly (to me); it's the team's health for its TV that is the reason to give the ball to less suitable guys.
(Normal) skills on Sauri/stormvermin/slann blitzers/black orcs/chaos warriors are simply more value for 20k TV than normal on skinks/gutters/slann catchers/orc blitzers/beastmen.
Posted by koadah on 2013-03-29 17:31:25
I did say "Building a good team will give you a better chance of winning in the future. ".
What I meant was it is not a focus. I want to win the game first.
If I really don't need the TD then I can mess about.
As someone said, play the game and let the SPPs fall where they may.
You can always fire your skinks if they skill to much. ;)
Posted by regn on 2013-03-29 17:32:26
Win games, score touchdowns. Don't stall, don't farm. Be a Cool Dude.
Posted by blader4411 on 2013-03-29 17:33:30
You won't win games if you don't stall...
Posted by Kam on 2013-03-29 17:52:42
"the other day I specced a coach miss a certain draw my attempting a T16 handoff to a Treeman!"
I do that all the time, just not at t16 unless I'm already winning. But yes, it costs me games. The thing is... I don't do that (only) for the SPP. I'd probably do the same with a legendary tree. I do it because... trees have to score. Period.
Well that and some fling coaches decided it was about time to fill this tree scorers top list. :)
Posted by numbersix on 2013-03-29 18:08:47
Guess that's my problem... I tend to focus more on farming SPP on certain players, I take too many risks and so I miss many chances/lose many games.
Thanks for the post, it gave me a moment of insight about one thing I do that can be risky if done careless.
Posted by Zed on 2013-03-29 20:40:10
Yeah Endzone, it's not farming what you saw, it's just people who try to get their treeman in the top scorer top list, got my tree in today with 10 th td ^^
Posted by Zed on 2013-03-30 01:18:28
So since i have confirmation that it was my game, i did not try a hand over to the tree on T 16, T 15 and all the turns before yeap, even passing with the 5 spp fling to the tree, on T 16 i try the pick up and simply walk to the td line but double fail on it. Not farming, going for a personnal record and i did a tie at the end.
Posted by Kam on 2013-03-30 02:12:53
Well, you know, sometimes I also foul with a tree, for the same reason. Or I play the dorf team of a coach 25 or 30 CR above me.
Why do I do that? That's pretty simple: it's a game. Wining or "building a team" is meaningless. Having fun is not. That's what you're missing in your initial question. :)
Posted by Endzone on 2013-03-30 09:07:39
Apologies Zed, I must have stopped watching on T15, gratz on securing the tie. The post was about exploring this whole area rather than any critism of your play.
I was kind of expecting some coaches to reply saying in the 'competitive' divisions coaches should play to win but it is interesting to me that there appears to be wide acceptance that winning is secondary to many coaches in many R or B games - and that this is fine.
Thanks for all your comments guys.
Posted by uzkulak on 2013-03-30 10:42:56
That's because handing off to a tree is still trying to score.
Posted by keggiemckill on 2013-03-30 22:31:10
WIN, WIN, WIN! Unfortunately the same key players end up skilling up. The point of any competition is to attempt to win at it. Anyone that says anything else is talking silly. Risking wins for future wins? What's the point of that? Lose or tie now, to win later? It is preposterous and un-rowdy!